poor detoxification, when we’re not able to detoxify our bodies properly a number of things happen. But acne can definitely be a result of that, and we’re talking about the liver, and we’re talking about the lymphatic system, the health of the gut, is another very, very important thing, because the skin and the gut both share the microbiome. So if the gut is not healthy, and the microbiome is not healthy, then the microbiome on the skin is not going to be healthy either. And the other pillar is poor stress management, when we’re not able to manage our stress properly, high cortisol levels actually trigger three different biochemical pathways in the body that can lead to acne. So those are the root causes that I always address when a patient comes to me with acne. And sometimes it’s not all of those root causes that are at play, it can be like one or two, or maybe all of them. But that’s really, that’s what I mean when I say acne is not a skin problem, and it goes much deeper.

 

Dr. Manon  06:16

Yeah. And I think it’s very indicative, in the way that the conventional paradigm is,  we are always looking at the one organ or the one place and then dealing with it by literally masking it. No pun intended there with skin. So it’s interesting to give the perspective that, in a sense, when we have acne, it’s already a symptom of the disbalance. And I think that’s the key, it’s like, stop looking at it like the problem. It’s actually your wake-up call, that there’s something else that’s wrong, right? And when you don’t treat it, so you don’t treat, I’m not going to talk about the acne per se, but when you don’t treat the root cause, what have you found? If you just let’s say, Oh, it’s vanity, I don’t care about it, I’ll just leave my acne. What else is in store for these people who don’t look at their acne as something they must address?

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   07:30

It depends on what the root cause is, what’s really going on to create the acne in the first place. But when there’s insulin dysregulation, for instance, that says that there is a metabolic condition happening in the body, and we all know metabolic conditions can end up with something like diabetes, right? Cardiovascular conditions, so it is kind of, it’s like a little red flag that’s being waved like fix me, something’s not in balance. And when you don’t fix it, it is going to become something bigger in the future. And same with the gut, acne is a sign that the gut is not in great shape. If we’re not healing the gut, if we’re not balancing our microbiome, we now know that certain cytokines are stimulated in the gut, and that causes mass inflammation throughout the entire body. And inflammation can lead to pretty much any chronic disease out there, depending on what, how your body manifests inflammation?

 

Dr. Manon  08:37

So you have four categories that you mentioned. So how do you go about with each category? Assessing in layman’s terms, but what is it you do, what’s available to people just to get the full picture of what the journey for a patient would be if they came to see you?

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   09:04

So the first thing that I always address is diet. That’s the foundation. I need to heal the gut, I need to balance the blood sugar. And that comes with removing any aggravating foods, any inflammatory foods, and establishing a route and eating routine that is very balanced, so you’re not eating a high sugar diet, so you’re not stimulating those insulin levels all the time. So I always start with a diet, teach my patients, teaching them how to eat an anti-inflammatory diet, and usually, I get them on an elimination diet, to begin with as well. So we can take up the foods that are aggravating them. We allow the gut time to heal and just really balance the insulin levels. And, I do add supplements in one at a time very carefully. Acne patients are so sensitive, and their bodies can be overstimulated very easily. So, only ever one supplement at a time. And I’ll definitely support the organs of elimination liver and the lamp peel that got with a good probiotic. And then with stress management, I mean,  that’s the most difficult thing to teach people.

 

Dr. Manon  10:45

 I’m sure it was different when you were learning, but we had stress management classes. And, yeah, the…I can’t say that there wasn’t a great deep understanding of what stress is, and really what we can do as individuals to deal with that. What are the things that you find that people easily adapt to that, that they can actually do when you suggest stress management?

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   11:18

I’m a huge meditator, myself, I’m a huge Yogi. I’m a huge meditator. So that’s a huge part of what I teach my patients. And I can teach it, and I love teaching it, but it’s up to them to implement it. So that’s always the hard part when it comes to stress management because meditation works. Meditation is like a game-changer. For sure, so that’s kind of one of my top things I teach. The other thing is gratitude. You know, and that’s an easier practice to implement. And that is very powerful as well. And acknowledging three things that you’re grateful for every day, for 21 consecutive days, has actually shown that it helps our sympathetic nervous system transition more easily into a parasympathetic Stretton state. So that’s something that I really want all my patients to integrate into their lives. So I teach that as well.

 

Dr. Manon  12:22

Yeah, and I find that very easy to do. But it changes more, even more than the physiology, it changes the way you are perceiving your life. And the things that used to be triggers become less triggers because you don’t notice them anymore. Right? That’s just the way our perception works. So it changes deeply and radically. To us, techniques of gratitude, and they’re not techniques, it’s actually noticing what if we take the time to be grateful, there’s so many things we can be grateful for. I was gonna say, one of the things because I’m in full agreement with what you’re saying, even though that was not my specialty, was pain. Well, actually, we’re not supposed to use the word specialties, I’ll take that back. My focus, and who was attracted to me are people…we have a lot of laws. If people are listening to this, wondering why, but……..

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   13:33

I know, it’s hard to keep track of everything.

 

Dr. Manon  13:36

There’s a lot of pieces, you know, and even focus, we’re allowed to have a focus. But because naturopathy is so complete and holistic, we could say we can treat just about anything, because that’s actually the truth. And yet from reaching the people who we can help the most. From a marketing perspective, you need to be very specific, so that people can find you. And especially like, in your case, where you have a story that is totally dear to your heart and an experience that you have, gotten to the other side of it makes sense. And yet we can’t say specialists. So it’s, kind of funny anyway, but now back to my pain point. So my pain focus. One of the things that I realized is that I use something called Bowen Therapy to put people into that parasympathetic state. And it’s one I’m sure you’ve heard of,  it’s something that is also very effective for people to relax and it shifts things and once you’re in parasympathetic that’s really where people heal. We’re in this driven sympathetic overdrive, overstimulated state and once we turn into parasympathetic, we digest better, everything happens we heal better, we repair better, and our bodies are made to heal. So that’s my little secret in switching that as well. But meditation, I want you to speak a little bit about that. Because a lot of people are so afraid of it. Because I’m not going to sit there and what…I’m going to have all these thoughts come through how what is your version of what works?

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   15:44

Oh, gosh, and I’ve had a crazy journey with meditation, too. As I said earlier, I’m a huge Yogi, and I’ve been doing a daily yoga practice since 1995, which is a long time. And I’ve always tried to do a meditation part practice, as part of my yoga practice, that’s always been my goal. For many years, it was incredibly difficult for me to do this because I would sit in meditation, and my brain would go insane, and I could not rein it in. And so I thought I, it’s clearly not for me, meditation, I can’t do it. And I had a lot of stressors going on in my life, especially in my 30s. One of the symptoms of my stress was insomnia. I was a huge Insomniac, and all the stress of my 20s and 30s accumulated to a point where, in my early 40s, I had three massive stress-induced heart attacks. And due to a condition called scad, in scad, is very rare, but it’s called spontaneous coronary arterial dissection. And it is caused by excess stress. So I was just a stress case. And, you know, when I had these heart attacks, I had two little children. And I’m like, I have to do something because I want to live, to see my children grow up. And I’ve got to do something radical, in order to shift my life and take control of my stress levels. And the only thing I could think of, the only thing that I knew would help me would be meditation. And so I had no choice. I was like, I either got to start this meditation practice, or I am not going to be here to see my kids grow up. So I started every morning, every afternoon, for 20 to 30 minutes, I now meditate. And at first, it was super difficult. I do the type of meditation where I repeat a mantra silently inside my head. And it can change the mantra. But I find that because my brain was initially so scattered, and so all over the place, repeating a mantra sitting on my yoga mat, breathing, focusing on my breath, and repeating this mantra really, really helped me focus my attention and calm that voice inside my head. And so I’ve been doing this daily, twice a day, for about five years now. And it has radically shifted my life, shifted my stress levels. I haven’t had any heart symptoms since. And it saved my life. Meditation is a game-changer. It can change your life. Unfortunately, I had to have a life-threatening situation happen to me to get really serious about it, but that is how I do my meditation, and that is how it has affected me.

 

Dr. Manon  19:08

That is quite the story, isn’t it?

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   19:08

You had no idea what was coming when you asked that question.

 

Dr. Manon  19:21

It shocks me but not really because the thing is the passion there to help other people. My mind usually comes from the absolute passion that we had to do ourselves in order to exist, or to survive, or to get past whatever our obstacles were. I think that’s how we find passionate people. It’s not just like, Oh, we can fix people with natural things. I think the passion comes from a much deeper knowledge, deeper desire, and a truth that really leads us forward.

 

Dr. Manon  20:19

 Let’s go a little bit deeper because I do find that the journey and this is conversations about health. This is basically what we’re talking about,  What is health to you?

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   20:37

That’s a really great, great question.  When I feel healthy, I feel vital, every single day, having energy being able to do the things that I want to do with a sense of peace. I think that’s it. Because, in my 30s, when I was doing yoga every day, I was taking all the right supplements, I was eating all the right foods, I thought I was super healthy. But I was also incredibly frenetic. That was not health to me, that feeling really vital, and being able to feel that way. While having a calm, healthy mindset at the same time, that’s health to me.

 

Dr. Manon  21:29

Very interesting. It’s not very different from my definition, as well. And I actually signed my signature in health and joy. Because for me, Joy is that it is a peace of mind. But it’s almost like the enthusiasm of life leads you to this. It’s like an effervescent feeling.  That I feel and I think, when I look at the paradigm of I guess it’s called conventional medicine, I’m not sure, can’t say traditional, that was not the case. So it’s a fairly recent system. And this is not about doctors just out there, because, everyone I’ve interviewed goes into health and into the healing profession, because they want to help people. And we’re all, it seems like we’re all drawn by either some personal experience or a family member that could not be saved by the system that existed or the choices they made or all that. So there is quite a drive in the profession of helping people.

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   23:06

Well, it’s so true. It’s so true.

 

Dr. Manon  23:10

So the transition for you and why I asked what do you think about health is that in this modern paradigm, where we’re taught that it’s the elimination of symptoms? In a sense, it’s like removing what the body seems to say to us to wake up. It’s like, that’s the problem, instead of going deeper, and that’s one of the issues but the other part is that it’s the expectations of the patient. The patient thinks the best they can have is the removal of these annoying symptoms. And so I find it really important to educate people to expect more out of health more out of life.

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   24:14

I agree with that. Because in my patient population, people come to me and they just want to get rid of the blemishes on their face, right? This is it like if I can do this. They’re totally happy. But when after I’ve been working with them for a while, they’re in shock because they’re like, ‘Wait a second, my periods are regular. I don’t have any PMS. I don’t have any constipation. I don’t have those headaches anymore. I feel so amazing.’ And they are so surprised and so shocked that all these changes are happening when really all they wanted was their skin to be clear. So yeah, I totally know what you’re saying when you say that they have no idea that we can do more, that we can uplevel their health so dramatically.

 

Dr. Manon  25:10

And that’s why the acne seems so superficial. And that’s why I’m so glad to hear the depth of your passion and your knowledge. Because you would think I’ll just get rid of that. It’ll be fine. You know, pain is a little bit different. Sure, get rid of pain, and you’ll be fine. Well, yes, there’s much more understanding that if we can get rid of pain, but of course, if you do it in a natural way, then you don’t just get rid of pain, you change the person’s life altogether. So the depth is there. But if people can imagine their lives being better, if they’re not in constant pain. But acne is more like, I would think is just like, get rid of that.

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   25:59

Yeah, they just want clear skin, they don’t care. Getting clear skin is such a game-changer for so many people. I mean, my patient population is mostly women experiencing adult acne. And the emotional and mental toll that acne takes on women is well, and men, of course, but I’m talking about my patient is just so under-recognized, and there’s research studies that show that women with acne have higher levels of anxiety, higher levels of depression, lower levels of self-esteem, it’s well documented that it is, it’s a really, it’s a serious medical condition.

 

Dr. Manon  26:50

And is the anxiety and all that because of the society that expects women to be glossy to be Vougey to have everything like that? Is it that or is it that there really are stressors, that people, men or women in your case manifest through their skins?

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   27:21

That is such a great question. And I observe my patients, and I asked them questions. And I’m still formulating my own personal theories on this. But I really feel that a lot of women that experience acne, there’s a deep shame within them, that pre-exists before the acne. And then when acne does come, I mean, it causes so much mental and emotional trauma that it just exacerbates the acne. So, I see shame as such an associated emotion with acne all the time, so much shame.

 

Dr. Manon  28:05

 I’m not surprised, actually. Yeah, it was definitely not been my focus. But if I think back of the patients who may have had pain and acne, for example. Yeah, I would concur that it serves an interesting purpose. And it’s funny, because it’s almost like you could say, it’s easy to be the victim of that and say, Look at that, you know, I’m already feeling shame and now, I definitely can’t show myself. You can justify it. But often diseases are, or conditions are your way of transgressing or actually transforming your reality.

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   28:55

Yeah, that’s so true.

 

Dr. Manon  28:57

So I would imagine that as you help women, not just get rid of their acne, but actually heal more fully, that the shame disappears. And you could say, well, it’s because the acne is not there. But healing is so much deeper.

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   29:20

It’s reaching such a deep level when you’re able to affect somebody’s shame and allow them to recognize their own beauty and their own worth, and be able to establish boundaries and understand things they’ve never understood before they’ve had to go through this journey of experiencing acne and healing acne. And I really call it a clear skin journey, because it is a journey, and a lot of times with some of my patients, we’re almost there. You know, we’re almost there in the healing, they’re doing all the right things with diet. They’re doing all the right things with doing great supplements but they don’t get there until, and I’ve heard this so many times, they learn to love themselves. It’s like the final piece of the puzzle for so many women to be able to look in the mirror and say, “You know what, I’m beautiful. Even if I have this spot on my face, I’m still beautiful.” And when they can get to that place, I swear, their acne disappears. I see it a lot, happens so many times. It’s like the final piece.

 

Dr. Manon  30:42

Yeah, but it does come to that inner work and that self-love.  So it’s interesting. Healing is a journey. Right? It’s not a superficial thing. And I think that’s one of the opportunities and what’s happening in these times, that people need to self-reflect much more deeply about what’s going on for them. What’s going on, with their job, or lack of, what’s going on in their relationships. And all of that, and, at least I’ve found that many times, a very unhealthy relationship is a deep stressor to a person’s health. And if they’re already experiencing shame from before, because usually, that starts much earlier, then these kinds of relationships can exacerbate the condition that you’re already prone to. And I think that’s where the healing is always a journey. It’s not about removing symptoms, it’s working on our entire body. And yet, we’re still programmed to think that the problem is out there.

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   32:19

I know, when in fact, our symptoms are our friends. Our symptoms are leading us on a journey to learn more about ourselves or more about our bodies. Acne was one of the greatest gifts that I ever had, it has given me so much like, I’m thankful for Acme every single day. And I really encourage my patients to think of it the same way. It’s not this big, bad thing that needs to be eliminated. It’s your body talking to you. It’s a message and it’s something we need to listen to with empathy and with love.

 

Dr. Manon  33:04

I think that’s the key really, with empathy and love and with openness so that we can discover what’s behind that. What’s behind that? How are we made up? Because we’re not simple beings in that sense. It’s not one straight road. It’s so many pieces that unfold. And I think there’s such a joy in healing.

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   33:30

Yes, I agree with you. It’s so beautiful. I get so excited about it. I do, I really get excited about healing, it’s so much. It’s fun. It’s a really good time.

 

Dr. Manon  33:43

A good time, which doesn’t mean that it’s all roses. That’s the thing is we have this idea that covering it up it’s done and it’s not and healing is like oh, it’s gonna be all pain or it’s a journey. It’s part of our life. Just like transformation. I noticed that you have, is it a seven-week program? It’s a seven-week clear skin program. Why don’t you tell us just a little bit about that so that people who are interested can find it?

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   34:23

Absolutely. So my seven-week clear skin program is an online program that I offer for women that are interested in healing their acne from the inside out. And so I share my protocols, and my wisdom on seven different modules as to how to start your own healing journey to heal your acne from the inside out.

 

Dr. Manon  34:48

Wow, that’s great. And does that involve having access to tests and things to guide or is it more of a transformational work or what type of training is that?

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   35:03

So to do a lot of the…to do the testing and to really work with me one on one, I offer a coaching program and the seven-week clear skin program. I really share the culmination of my experience over the past 14 years. What works with diet, some great techniques to help your body detoxify, some great techniques to help you heal your gut. It’s more of a self-directed program. But to really get all the testing done, personalized supplementation, then you can work with me directly.

 

Dr. Manon  35:42

Because it’s not one size fits all. But it’s definitely really important to understand that. Also the mindset and the things that we can do on our own. For me, that’s so important. For me, that’s my vision and I think I told you when we talked earlier, it’s a healer in every household. It’s finding that healer within because it starts with that. And once you start to see all the things that actually change, then it makes so much sense to see an expert who are…I think we’re not supposed to be experts either.

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   36:25

What are we anyway?

 

Dr. Manon  36:28

I just discovered that as a naturopath, I can’t talk about the immune system. So it’s like, okay, that’s news to me. The foundation of so much of what we’ve done even…whatever. There’s bodies of regulations, apparently, for public safety, and it gets complicated sometimes. It’s just like everything. It’s not straightforward.

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   36:58

It’s really shocking that as naturopathic doctors we are not able to talk about the immune system.

 

Dr. Manon  37:12

I actually don’t understand it sufficiently and we have such an opportunity, as well, at least the way I see it, when people are in so much fear about this virus, for example, every other year when people don’t want to get the flu, or they don’t want to get a virus or they don’t want to get something. You tell them eat well, look after your body, and do things for yourself. You go back to self-care. And interestingly, this time, it’s not a subject to be discussed, which is, it’s very interesting for me to notice that and it saddens me. Yeah, to be part of the disempowering of people when healing is such an empowered act.

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   38:10

Your right healing is empowering.

 

Dr. Manon  38:15

So it was really lovely talking with you and finding out a little bit more about your program and we’re gonna have a link, where are you located for those who want more details.

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   38:31

I am in Toronto. So I am in Canada too.

 

Dr. Manon  38:34

 And what’s the name of your clinic?

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   38:36

I work within a clinic, Midtown Toronto called Rosedale Dermatology Clinic. So I actually worked in a dermatology clinic.  And I also do online consults as well.

 

Dr. Manon  38:50

Well, I’ll definitely put those links so that people can reach you, and then you have your program as well. And anyone who’s listening, acne is a thing. And as you mentioned, it is often seen as something that can have a huge impact. And I think you’ve definitely shown that it has a massive impact, especially on the adult population.

 

Dr Stacey Shillington, ND   39:20

Thank you so much for having me on. It’s been super fun to talk to you.

 

Dr. Manon  39:25

Well, thank you.

 

Thank you for joining us. For more information, go to DrManonBolliger.com.