I certainly wouldn’t be rocking up to rehab or calling AA or speaking to a GP, like why would I do that? I was just waking up at 3am knowing that something was wrong. And of course, I thought I was the only person who felt that way. But of course, I now realize millions of people caught in that alcohol track. So, you know, they’re not at rock bottom yet. But they’re also not okay.

 

Manon Bolliger 04:29

So, is the symptoms that your body started producing? Like waking at 3am That kind of went Oh.

 

Janey Lee Grace 04:40

This is your liver talking to you of course.

 

Manon Bolliger 04:45

Yeah, and then that made you go wait a minute, what am I doing?

 

Janey Lee Grace 04:49

It was a combination of things actually. It was partly physical kind of reactions, but mostly it was the kind of…it was the uncut, it was the messages from the unconscious mind, really, you know, the messages. So, I’d wake up at 3am, and, a voice would be saying to me, what are you doing? Stop it, this has to stop. This is not who you are, this is not authentic with anything you’re meant to do. It’s not okay. And it would be so clear and so strong that voice. But then by six o’clock the next evening, you know, the wine which would fly in and say, Oh, it’s a lovely sunny day, you know, you’ve been so busy, and the kids are looked after. So, you know, go and have a lovely Sauvignon Blanc, and I’d be straight back down the booze elevator. And I was caught in the trap as so many people are. So yes, but yes, it was physical too. Because I was generally quite healthy. I’m very grateful that I got away with it in inverted commas, for the most part, because of my very healthy diet because of the, you know, mountains of supplements and various other things. I am probably fortunate; it could have been a lot worse than it was. I don’t think I’ve ever I don’t think I was completely thrown clear. I’ve just had some really awful dental issues, and I can’t help but think Oh, my goodness, I don’t think that would have come about I’ve not been drinking for so long. But anyways, you know, we’ll never know. But the point I’m trying to make is, I think it’s a combination of both the physical symptoms which start to creep up on you. But really what usually kick starts people into making the change is when you know that voice is really telling them. It’s enough.

 

Manon Bolliger 06:42

Okay, yeah, no, because I was wondering, I haven’t heard that voice.

 

Janey Lee Grace 06:49

I mean, the thing is, I mean, let’s, let’s just say for starters, I’m not kind of preaching prohibition, right? At all, I’m completely nonjudgmental in my approach. And I always say to people, it’s not a this is not about me saying you should not drink. It’s simply a question that I think everyone should ask themselves. And that question is, could my life be better physically and emotionally without booze? Now, if you’re someone who has an off switch, right, and you don’t have any issue with alcohol, and you when you’ve had enough, you’ve had enough and all good, then maybe the answer to that question will be no, I’m good. But if I’d asked myself, honestly, that question six years ago, would your life be better physically and emotionally without the booze? Oh, hell yes, of course. Of course, it would.

 

Manon Bolliger 07:43

Yeah. So, I mean, I do love the question because you mentioned you have four children?

 

Janey Lee Grace 07:49

Yeah

 

Manon Bolliger 07:50

Yeah, I have three. And, you know, I’ve noticed, and then three children as an adult in their 30s. So, and one in one in her 20s. But I’m hearing you know, oh, well, I’m not really into drinking, I’m drinking much less. And, you know, and I find that, oh, that’s great. You know, and the way I was raised is like, European style, you know, we didn’t do hard liquor, particularly, that became a later phenomenon, to, you know, to have a cocktail or whatever. But it was like, you know, wine with dinner is like normal. So, even if it’s a tiny bit of wine and lots of water it doesn’t matter, but it was like, so part of the ritual that.

 

Janey Lee Grace 08:41

It is, it is so ingrained in our culture, isn’t it?

 

Manon Bolliger 08:44

Yeah, I never thought of, you know, going without, and now I have one daughter, who’s, you know, who says like, oh, everything, all her symptoms are gone that she has, and she feels so much better. And I’m looking at her like, I don’t remember you bad, you know, and, but it’s all an internal thing. She feels completely better. So, she got me to read things about why I should stop, you know, how poisonous it is. And it’s, it’s an interesting thing. I know that that’s not an approach that would work with me. I mean, if toxins I removed from my diet, and I have an extremely clean diet, I eat organic, you know, I do all of those things. But I also, you know, mostly organic wine. You know, so I’m thinking, Well, you know, and then you think, do you start justifying the habit that you love because it just makes the food taste good. And you know, I don’t get headaches. And I don’t…

 

Janey Lee Grace 09:50

I would argue that it doesn’t make the food taste good. I would argue that’s your perception now, and everything you’re saying is exactly where I was. I used to justify myself well yeah, but the wine I have its good quality wine. It’s organic wine. I mean I’m sorry but it’s actually BS it really is. It’s all just toxic liquid is what it is. That’s that that’s the reality of it. But I was exactly the same as you I would absolutely justify by Oh, it’s good quality or whatever. And yes, the perception is it makes the food taste better. No, it actually doesn’t. When you stop drinking, you get your tastebuds can actually properly taste food. And in fact, what’s really interesting is when you don’t drink anymore, if you accidentally cop a taste of a glass of wine, it happened to me it’s happened to me twice I think in five years, completely by accident I’ve been I’ve picked up someone else’s glass, just literally completely by mistake and taken a sip. Oh, my goodness, the shock. It’s absolutely vile. It’s like drinking petrol, literally like drinking petrol. When you’re used to it, when you’re accustomed to it, you don’t notice. You’ve literally acclimatized yourself as we all do, because let’s face it, no children, I mean, your very first drink you ever have, or if you give a drink to a child, you know, they want to try to like it, but actually they choke a little bit because it’s disgusting. Alcohol is disgusting. I mean, it’s literally disgusting. Certainly, the fact that it’s covered up with all the flavors in the sugar, right? And actually, when you’re not drinking anymore, and you copy a little taste of it by accident, you realize just how absolutely vile it is. It’s actually horrible. So, I don’t believe you. Just to counter the argument.

 

Manon Bolliger 11:36

That’s the whole idea. I’ve done periods where I’m doing a complete cleanse. And so, I don’t drink them. But I don’t have that feeling when I have my next you know, glass I’m still loving it, right?

 

Janey Lee Grace 11:53

Depends how long it depends how long and also when you say you’re loving it, mostly what’s happening is in your mind, because that’s the decision that you’ve made. And in fact, they do say, don’t they that the dopamine hit comes in a few seconds before you actually take a sip? It’s not really, it’s not really the alcohol. It’s just what you it’s just the way we process it. And the way we tell ourselves, Oh, isn’t this lovely? This lovely, gorgeous, but actually, the reality is, if you were to if you’d have a period of abstinence, for example, and then you came back to drinking, I’m really looking forward to having that drink with dinner. And then let’s just imagine, for whatever reason, I don’t know, you know, that suddenly, you’ve been building work done or whatever. And actually, the reality is, you’ve got to have that glass of wine in a cheap, nasty plastic cup, and it’s warm and the cup is cracked, and it’s a little bit dirty. Oh, that’s not as good is it. That’s not what you meant at all. You know what I mean? It’s like, it’s not really the alcohol you want at all. It’s all the associations that we like.

 

Manon Bolliger 12:58

I think that’s true. I mean, I do believe that it’s part of the whole setting up of the, you know, whatever it is, whether it’s the so-called Family time where the perfect everything else, you know. And we play incredible games with you know, with ourselves right when you look at it that way, but I just thought I’d be honest about that.

 

Janey Lee Grace 13:24

Totally. See. This is why one of my mantras is keep the ritual change the ingredients. So no, no, that you like having a lovely, nice glass of wine, inverted commas with dinner, but have a wineglass and have something alcohol free in it. What not to like?

 

Manon Bolliger 13:43

Trust me. I will do that, too. I still haven’t been able to say I don’t like anything sweet. I like really, like, dry red light. Right. So, it’s very hard to replace that. Like I was, you know, pomegranate, you know, but

 

Janey Lee Grace 14:04

you need one of the alcohol-free wines that are out there. Now. I mean, red wine is the hardest to do. But you can do it. There’s a great one is certainly in the UK called Noughty and n o u g h t y. So very dry alcohol-free red wine. Okay, okay. Times changing in the UK. I mean, we were ahead of the world in our coffee drinks.

 

Manon Bolliger 14:27

Yeah. Because certainly I’ve tried the what’s available here and they’re so disgusting. They’re so sweet. My liver would go into failure. I just hate sugar, you know, so, anyhow, but Okay, so what was your like, what is the trap in when you’re talking? Like, you know, obviously, I’m sharing my own ability to deny the ability to you know, I can see the story I’m creating. And you know, why it is ethanol pretty well, the only toxic thing I put in my body that I’m not forced.

 

Janey Lee Grace 15:11

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was exactly the same. And, you know, I think it’s because it’s because of a variety of things. I think it’s completely cultural. It’s literally ingrained in us. It’s, it’s the only drug in inverted commas, we have to justify not taking, right, because it’s the done thing. It’s what everyone does. It’s the rite of passage. It’s the, you know, the playdates the weddings, the funerals, the you know, Sunday afternoon, everything is everywhere. You can’t buy a birthday card for your 25-year-old son, other than something, you know, with a glass of beer on the front, you know, it’s literally so ingrained in our culture in every aspect of our culture. And, of course, that tracks back to, you know, the marketing behind it, you know, governments and big business alike want us to drink alcohol, because it brings in the cash, you know, and there’s a school of thought that says, you know, it keeps us nicely controlled. There is that as well. But basically, you know, we are most of us that are under that spell, why would we not beings what we’ve grown up with, and I think once you have developed that taste, as it were, you know, it’s addictive, it is literally addictive. So, you know, for example, people talk about well, can you be a mindful drinker? And the answer is…

 

Manon Bolliger 16:36

Manon Bolliger here and I want to thank you for taking actionable steps towards engaging your healing journey, and helping others discover their path by watching, sharing, subscribing, and reviewing these podcasts. Every review and share helps spread the word these different perspectives and choices and options for healing. And to thank you, I’d like to invite you to sign up to my free seven sequence email tips on health and healing for everyday life. You can go to healers, cafe.com tips. Thanks so much.

 

Janey Lee Grace 17:14

Well, yes, if you have an off switch. So, I sometimes joke and say, you know, I’m a mindful kiwi fruit eater. And what I mean by that is, you know, I quite like kiwi fruit, so okay, and I don’t have any at the moment, but if my son brings one home tomorrow, I might have a kiwi fruit. And then I might go out in the evening and buy some flute for dessert that have might be kiwi fruit, but then I might not think about kiwi fruits for three months. I certainly wouldn’t be Googling Oh, have I got a problem with kiwifruits. Right, or waking up in the middle of the night? Because kiwi fruits are not addictive. Okay, alcohol is. Alcohol is addictive. And, you know, we could go we could dig deep into all kinds of layers of this, you know, which we probably don’t need to but it’s addictive. And the actual reality is, there is no safe limit of alcohol actually. I don’t believe for one second, all those BS reports that it’s good for you. I used to love those stories. Oh, I used to jump on those stories in the press. Oh, a glass of red wine is good for the heart. No, I don’t think so. If you want resveratrol or antioxidants, you know, you know full well have a grape or have some have some great fresh fruit veg, right or whatever. Blueberries have some blueberries or dark chocolate, you know, it’s not true. Actually not true. And I’ve done some really very powerful interviews with you know, leading very eminent doctors and psychologists who have properly done the studies, not the studies funded by the drug companies, which most of them by the alcohol companies, but they’ve done their own proper independent studies, which find that you know, alcohol its aging its damaging. It doesn’t do us any good at all. And obviously, depending on the level you’re having, then you know, as with anything we choose our risks, don’t we? Some of us, you know, drink a bit too much coffee, we might have sugar, you know, everything’s a balance, I suppose. But the reality is, nobody needs alcohol. Nobody, and everybody feels better without it. I’ve never met anyone who said, Oh, God, I so regret ditching for booze. You’re joking. It is the benefits of sobriety filter into every single area of your life. That’s the thing I hadn’t expected. Or when I went into it, as it were, I just needed to stop feeling terrible. And I and I couldn’t imagine how I would even get through life without drinking when it was my sort of identity. But you know, I sort of I suppose I sort of hoped I’d feel better. But I certainly could never have imagined the incredible breadth of benefits that sobriety brings, both physically and emotionally. Well, I guess too, if alcohol is used as a de stressor, you know, the idea is, okay, sure, if one glass, you may have that, and then not get into an argument, just chill. But if you’re into two glasses, or more than your, it’s actually not even true anymore than it, then I mean, not that it actually distresses you, but physiologically, you have the impression that you’re less…you’re less clued in your like, you know, you’re just like, you know, hidden a little bit, right. I think, once you have more, any, even these justifications are, are no longer No exactly, because you kind of lose your inhibitions. And so, you know, Saudi, and then you have more. And also, you know, I think that the really interesting thing about people who are moderate is, you know, I suppose the question for those people would be is there a danger that your moderation could turn into a problem? And the answer is absolutely yes. Because if your association is that you have, you know, you have a very, very stressful day, and then you need a drink, and you have your drink. Even if you only have one drink, okay. The association is very strong, it’s, I’m under stress, reach for a drink. So then if something really does go bad in your life, you’ll be reaching for a drink, but then you’ll be reaching for another one. So, you know, one of the best tips around, you know, people who decide they want to moderate. If you’ve got…if there’s people who decide, okay, well, I want to carry on drinking, but I’m gonna, I’m going to be a mindful drinker, I’m going to drink moderately, then my tips would be, Well, number one, I’d always say do a minimum 30 days of not drinking at all first, then you can just reset everything. But number two, the top tips would be set your own parameters around when you are going to drink then so is it, I don’t know, Wednesdays and Saturdays or whatever it is for you. Set your own parameters, but then add in another rule. And that rule is that you commit to never drinking, if you are upset, or fearful or angry or stressed. Even if it’s a Wednesday, designated Wednesday. Right? And that knocks out a whole lot of drinking time. When you realize you can’t drink when you’re upset or angry or fearful or stressed. Yeah. Why would I drink anyway, then?

 

Manon Bolliger 23:10

You learn things from your parents, right. Often but my mom you know, if something’s wrong, you know, you’ll never see me with a glass of wine.

 

Janey Lee Grace 23:21

Good for her.

 

Manon Bolliger 23:22

But if things are good…

 

Janey Lee Grace 23:24

Well, that’s it. That’s the other rule as bad to say I sometimes say to as a further rule, which is you won’t drink be celebrating either. Really just knock out all the drinking time.

 

Manon Bolliger 23:39

But what I’ve been doing more consciously with letting on just wine, but just everything in general is checking in not taking it for granted. You know, like, I would serve myself a glass and then am I actually enjoying this, like, actually, you know, is it.

 

Janey Lee Grace 24:01

That’s the mindfulness piece, isn’t it?

 

Manon Bolliger 24:03

Yeah. And it’s interesting, because yeah, sometimes after like, two sips, it’s like, I’m not actually enjoying this.

 

Janey Lee Grace 24:13

So even before you pour it, you might want to ask yourself, what, what exactly what’s the feeling I’m really trying to create here. What is it that I actually want? You know, what’s the feeling I want? Often, it’s in my case, it was that I wanted to feel grown up you know, wants to feel like I was having a reward after a busy day. And that was the association I just need a reward. Okay. And then when you when you’re able to acknowledge what the feeling is you really trying to create, you can then become much more conscious of having your toolkit ready as it were, so that you have other ways of providing yourself with that resource, which is of course much healthier. There are many more healthy ways to feel supported and rewarded and being kind to yourself than actually having toxic liquid, which is not doing any good.

 

Manon Bolliger 25:06

Yeah, no, I think reward it would be also the big one for me. It’s like, oh, no, I’ve, I deserve you know, and yeah. And the thing is, yeah, you deserve more than that. Right?

 

Janey Lee Grace 25:20

Well, yeah. And you know, for years, I thought of my, you know, glass of wine or two or three as my self-care. That was my treat, you know, now, I think back, what was I doing? It’s not self-care. It’s self-harming. The amount I was drinking after a while, every single day.

 

Manon Bolliger 25:40

Yeah. Interesting. So, we ended up talking about this, mostly, but I wanted to also was Family Constellation. Have you seen? Have you got stories or impact that you’ve seen? You know, in family?

 

Janey Lee Grace 25:57

Yeah. I mean, I mean, Family Constellations is such a massive topic, it’s quite difficult to describe it in a few sentences. But for anyone who has experienced constellations, it’s, it’s a really powerful way of sort of visually seeing our family dynamics and the entanglements that can come from both our immediate family and, and, and ancestors. And it is really fascinating when you see a constellation, where alcohol is there in the mix. And sometimes I’ve done I’ve hosted constellations where I’ve brought in someone to represent alcohol and it’s really powerful. And I remember one constellation we did quite recently, where I brought someone in, I just kind of went and asked a guy I just said, you know, can you come with me kind of thing, and I placed him, but I didn’t tell him who he was representing. I didn’t tell anyone. So, I just placed him there. And the other participants, you know, sensed the energy. And it was absolutely fascinating. One, one woman who was the representing the issue holder was sort of was backing off from I had no idea who this person represented but was literally kind of backing off recoiling in horror. And then the person representing her mother was literally felt sort of everything release, she went, Ah, I feel much better now. And I feel safe now. And it was absolutely bizarre, because, of course, the whole constellation was around the fact that this woman had watched her alcoholic mother, you know, destroy her own life effectively. It was so powerful. And, you know, there’s no doubt that alcohol is so often there in the family system, you know, and can go back literally generations. And of course, of course it can. And sometimes, you know, we get stuck. It’s very…it’s very, very powerful when we, when things play out in constellations, and we can, we can see them. What’s always interesting is if you do have someone represent alcohol, when you ask them, how they’re how they are, as it were, even if they don’t know what they’re representing, they always just kind of go I’m neutral. Yeah, of course they are. Their good. Alcohol doesn’t care.

 

Manon Bolliger 28:40

Well, okay. You know, this is actually our time, but you’re up for it. I would love to win. So, I actually did Family Constellations. I mean, as in I was a I

 

Janey Lee Grace 28:55

A holder or a representative.

 

Manon Bolliger 28:58

No, no, no. Well, no, I will. Maybe it’s different. I don’t know. It was a therapist, who was kind of trying to pull out all the history and make sense of everything. So, I came as the as the patient.

 

Janey Lee Grace 29:12

Yeah, yeah. The issue holder we call that. Or sometimes we call it tissue holder, because normally crying.

 

Manon Bolliger 29:21

But yeah, I’d love to find out more because I feel like it started but then nothing came of it. Because it moved, everything kind of evolved. So, I’d like I’d love to know more. And I think I’ve heard a lot of people feel that it’s very, it really gives insights.

 

Janey Lee Grace 29:45

Yeah, it does. It’s such powerful work it and across all kinds of issues and just you know, sometimes just one piece of work can literally change your perspective on everything and also it changes the energy. That’s what’s really powerful about it. You know, I’ve done constellations where someone will, you know, say that they’re completely estranged from their brother or whatever, haven’t spoken for 30 years. And then and they’ll call me up a week later, and you’re not going to believe it. He called me on the way home. That’s kind of stuff happens a lot. You know, its energy, isn’t it?

 

Manon Bolliger 30:26

Okay, well, let’s, let’s do that. Maybe in a future time if you have a bit of time, because I’m too short to do both. But I really enjoyed learning more.

 

Janey Lee Grace 30:39

Yeah. Can I just mention the Sober Club, which is the community of Iran? Absolutely. Does that you know that I’m, I’m just I’m really proud of the sober club, because we focus not just only on ditching the booze because of course, that bits important. But then what next? So okay, how do you create that life that you don’t want to escape from? So that’s where I’m able to bring in all of the other stuff, all of the holistic living stuff, and the great stuff around nutrition and everything else, which once you’ve ditched the booze for so many people, perhaps when they open up to all the other stuff, and they found Oh, my goodness, right. So, I can actually get fit and healthy I can look at what supplements might support me and, and on and on. So yeah, so it works really, really well. But we can kind of start to uncover all these different layers.

 

Manon Bolliger 31:26

Hmm, yeah. Well, I would imagine to it’s the timing is everything with you know, post this pandemic anyways. So many people drank.

 

Janey Lee Grace 31:38

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah.

 

Manon Bolliger 31:41

And have health to be concerned about even more so now than other poisons have been in their systems.

 

Janey Lee Grace 31:50

Very true.

 

Manon Bolliger 31:52

Anyway, okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. We’ll be in touch.

 

Janey Lee Grace 31:57

Thank you. Appreciate it.

 

ENDING: 41:33

Thank you for joining us at the Healers Café with Manon Bolliger. Continue your healing journey by visiting TheHealersCafe.com and her website and discover how to listen to your body and reboot optimal health or DrManonBolliger.com/tips.