sick right after that. And we thought it must be food poisoning, but It never got better. So by the time our destination ended, I was very, very sick. And at that point, well, it took a little while for them to find for the doctors to finally diagnose me with Crohn’s disease. And they, it was the new disease on the block, the doctors didn’t know anything about Crohn’s, they didn’t know what to do for me.

Candace Plattor (02:41): I was in pain all the time. So what they did was they gave me a lot of addictive medication. I didn’t know at that time that that’s what it was because addiction was not on the radar then certainly not the way it is now. And you know, they were giving me things like codine and Demerol and oxies different kinds of oxies and valium different kinds of benzos. And I’ve only recently learned that, that is like a killer combination prescription medication for a lot of people. And so I feel very grateful to be here first of all, because it takes a lot of people out. So you know, it helped me feel better and I started smoking more pot. I had smoked pot socially in university. Like a lot of people did back then. All of these things helped me to feel better, so I just kept doing them.

Candace Plattor (03:47): And that was the beginning of my addiction to opioids. So it got to a place of my being very depressed over the years because those are all depressants in the system. And I had no idea what was going on for me. All I knew was that I was thinking about suicide and I knew I had enough pills. I knew I could do this. So I got scared. I reached out for help. This was after 15 years of being an opioid addict basically. And I received some really amazing help, but it was, it was quite a scary journey. And, and it was the beginning reaching out for help was the beginning of my recovery. And in about two weeks on July 18th, I will be celebrating 33 years clean and sober. it’s a wonderful much better life.

Dr Manon (04:53): You ended up finding a real solution for your Crohn’s.

Speaker 4 (04:58): Well, I actually, I think I did over the years. I’m not on any medication anymore and I’m a lot better. I mean, I used to be in the hospital every time I turned around, because I was so sick I’ve had surgeries from it and, you know I learned over the years how to take care of myself and what to eat and what not to eat and how to manage stress and to do all the things that you need to do with chronic illness and especially something like Chrohns it’s so affected by stress. And you know, it depends on the day, but I’m so much healthier than I was before.

Dr Manon (05:44): The number one way of dealing with pain ,is to deal with inflammation, you basically deal with pain by that. That’s why it’s such a huge crisis today.

Candace Plattor (05:58): So as I had been a teacher and a counselor in a different kind of way and when I realized that I was an addict and it was helpful for me to know that I didn’t mind the label because it, it showed me what I had to do. As I was given the help, I made a decision that I wanted to work in the addiction field and give back what I’ve been given. So I got a job in the downtown East side at this wonderful outpatient clinic called Mutare. And I was there for 16 years working with the addicts and the alcoholics down there and just loved it. But what happened was that the families of my clients started to call me, I don’t really know why they started to call me, but they did.

Candace Plattor (06:58): They started to call me and they would say things like, you know, we’re at the end of our rope, we don’t know what to do anymore. We’re just trying to help. We love them so much and we don’t know what to do. And, and so I started seeing the family members and I kept hearing their stories and I could see the patterns emerging. And the basic pattern that I saw was that they didn’t mean to be doing this, but they were basically enabling the addict that they loved so much. And they were giving them money. They were letting them live at home. They were letting them behave abusively. They were doing things like that. And I knew that if they kept doing that, that nothing would change because if nothing changes, nothing changes. So I started working with them. I didn’t know what I was doing either, but I started working with them and I began to love working with them.

Candace Plattor (07:57): And as they made their changes, the addicted clients that I was working with started to change too. And that’s when I knew I was kind of onto something. So I I decided to write a book because it was only me at that time. It was just me kind of working with the addicts. I a private practice. And I wanted to reach as many people as I could, because I knew I was onto something. I knew that I was doing something that was successful with these families. And so I wrote a book that that won some awards and I started, you know, getting known for this. And if anybody had ever told me when I was in my addiction, or even in my early recovery, that I could do something to help the world, I would have thought they were nuts, but here it is, so people can change. Addicts can recover. Yes, we can.

Dr Manon (09:00): I love that message, because that’s the thing sometimes, you know, being, identifying with a condition, like a diagnosis, so to speak Can be a starting point and others, it can be an ending point. It’s like, well, then there’s no change. There’s Oh, you know, it’s like, there’s nothing to be done really the possibilities there. It’s not the diagnosis per se. It’s what we bring to it and what we make it mean, you know? But clearly in your case, it was the beginning.

Candace Plattor (09:39): Beginning of quite a journey. And I went to 12 step programs for about 10 years of my recovery and really enjoyed them. And there are some really wonderful things about 12 step programs, like, the sponsorship and the fellowship and all of that. But I found that I was, it was hard for me to be in alignment with that philosophy after a while, because they see addiction as a disease. i can’t just say, I’m not going to have Crohn’s anymore, but I can do that with addiction. And they tell us that we’re powerless over this disease. And I was already seeing that I was not powerless over this disease, you know, so it was, it was a difficult juxtaposition for me. And I decided to not continue to go. I don’t see addiction as a disease.

Candace Plattor (10:35): what I know to be true for myself and for all the other people that I know who have some time in recovery, is that it’s a choice about whether we stay in active addiction or go into recovery. It’s not, something we’re powerless over. We have a choice. We don’t necessarily choose to become addicted. I don’t think anybody does that, you know, but once we realize, and as addicts realize that our lives are going nowhere, that we’re miserable, that we’re lonely and depressed. And you know, nothing’s working for us when we get to that place. That’s when we have, the choice point. We have a choice about whether we’re going to stay in that life or whether we’re going to go into active recovery of some sort. And when families enable an addict, generally what happens is that the addict stays stuck in active addiction. So sometimes they don’t even feel like they have the opportunity to make that choice because an enabled addict, why should they recover? Why should they do anything different?

Dr Manon (11:50): Can you can you go into a little bit more detail? What you mean by enabling? what have you seen specifically as enabling behaviours?

Candace Plattor (12:09): So the difference between helping and enabling when we’re doing something for somebody who can and should be doing that for themselves, when our whole lives revolve around somebody else, when we say yes, when we don’t really mean yes, but we’re just trying to avoid conflict. All of that stuff is enabling behaviour. When you lead, when you pay the rent for an addict, because they’re out of money because they’re buying drugs or whatever it is they’re doing, when you let somebody live at home. Maybe an adult child who’s addicted and living at home because they can’t pay their rent and they’re obnoxious and abusive in the home. And they’re not contributing at all financially, behaviorally, you know, they’re punching holes in the walls when they’re angry, they’re pushing people, you know, physically they’re doing that kind of stuff and that’s allowed, that’s enabling. And I’ve had some clients who actually used to be dealers, when you didn’t have to just, you know, call somebody to bring it over you know, they would drive their addicted, loved one to the dealer or the liquor store, because at least they knew where that person was.

Candace Plattor (13:38): And they’d pay for the substance they pay for the addiction. Those are enabling behaviours. And often people do that. So like people would think, well, why would anyone do that? I mean, obviously it’s not a good thing to do, but it’s because a lot of loved ones of addicts of any kind are what I like to call people pleasers. And, I am a recovering people pleaser. So I really know how that feels. And it’s really an icky feeling when you start, when you say yeah. So, the reason that they enable is that they’re trying to avoid the addict, getting mad at them or frustrated with them or that kind of thing. So it’s just easier to give in.

Dr Manon (14:29): So you feel that it’s the path of least resistance in that sense,

Speaker 4 (14:35): The path of least resistance for many people, but it doesn’t, it doesn’t fare. Well,

Dr Manon (14:40): That’s interesting It’s like enabling. it’s the confusion we have sometimes about really caring for somebody and daring to let go so that they can actually grow and do what they need to do to get out of it.

Candace Plattor (15:04): It’s exactly right. So the loved ones, the parents, the spouses, the siblings, whoever need to do their own work, to be able to strengthen and empower themselves and be able to say no, when they mean no. And for an addict, to me, being able to set those kinds of healthy self respecting boundaries is the most loving thing you can do for the addict, because it helps get them out of the addiction. Otherwise they stay in there. So it’s, it’s like a loved one needs to be able to say, I love you so much that I’m willing to not do this anymore. That’s how much I love you. I’m willing to not enable you anymore because I, it breaks my heart to see what you’re doing to yourself. I don’t want to contribute to that because I love you.

Dr Manon (16:01): And what’s available to people who need to make that difficult decision because you know, they’ve been enabling or they recognize that maybe they’ve been enabling and whether it’s a parent or a child or whatever the situation is, or a husband or wife, whatever, you know and it’s impacting, obviously it could be impacting their kids, whatever the situation is. they’ve been trying to keep it calm and quiet because it’s easier. What is the next step to do that loving………I know you talk about boundaries. What is the, what’s the next step?

Candace Plattor (16:49): I believe that the next step is to reach out for help because most people don’t know how to do this on their own. And that’s understandable. It’s not something we’re taught in our culture. You know, we’re not taught to set healthy boundaries. We’re not taught to do that. Being able to reach out for help to somebody like myself who has a program for this, there’s a very, you know, there are so many options for the addicts, especially if it’s a substance addict like alcohol or drugs, so many choices, there are recovery houses, there are detoxes there’s treatment centres. There’s all kinds of things for them. But there’s so little out there for the loved ones and they suffer right along with the addict. The addict is doing well, they’re doing well. If the addict isn’t doing well, they’re not doing so good. You know? And so it’s this rollercoaster that they’re on with their addicted loved one. So they need to reach out and, and learn how to get off the roller coaster. Them being on the roller coaster with the addict is not helping. It’s not helping.

Dr Manon (18:01): There’s a, the need to know that the addict can, or the one with addictive behaviours let’s say is actually able to change that there is a belief, even in the 12 step program, as you said, which basically tells you to keep repeating I’m an addict. And you know, and it’s like, if it becomes your label, then you really can’t, you don’t believe that there’s even a chance to get this right.

Candace Plattor (18:37): That true. For some people, for me, I knew that I could get out of it. I just knew I could. And I was doing that, a lot of people do that, but for some people it keeps them very stuck. You’re right.

Dr Manon (18:49): And for the enablers as well, because they, they actually have that program too..

Candace Plattor (18:56): And so what I like to teach people is to stop arguing for their addicts limitations because the addict is not limited. The addict has choice. The addict is making a choice and the loved one is not responsible for that choice. And the loved one didn’t create that choice because no matter what happens in a person’s life, it doesn’t mean that anybody else makes you an addict. There are so many different ways to respond to life. But if you’re doing it with addictive behaviours, you can come out of that as well. You can choose something different. So the loved ones need to understand that they, and this is something that they say in Alanon, which is a 12 step program for loved ones is, is that you didn’t cause it, you didn’t create it. You can’t cure it because you can’t make somebody else’s decisions for them. We are powerless over other people, but not over ourselves.

Dr Manon (19:56): Hi, this is a small commercial break. And for you to let me know that you’re enjoying these conversations, please go one to subscribe to my podcast. Number two, write a review because if you write a review on iTunes, more people know about this and I can help spread the work, my work, but the work of everyone else I’m interviewing. And number three, please sign up to my tips for your healing journey. And you can do that under www.DrManonBolliger.com/tips Thank you.

Candace Plattor (20:39): Reach out to somebody who can actually help you see that can help you see what the addict in your life really can achieve. And I’m living proof of that as are many other people to learn how to set the healthy boundaries that they need to set because boundary setting isn’t that easy. I mean, there’s a kind of a skill to it. There’s kind of an art to it, you know, and learning those phases of boundary setting, being able to really do that, maintain the boundary, not to cave when you get poked a little bit.

Dr Manon (21:16): Exactly. So one thing too, that you know, I’m curious for me and my experience, and I think also having that quite closely followed the work of Dr. Gabour Mate it would appear that at the base of addiction there’s often trauma. If not, almost, ……. I don’t like saying always, but you know…..

Dr Manon (21:44): pretty much always there’s some kind of trauma that’s happened. And when we’ve been through traumatic experiences, whatever they are we can create a whole story around that, about how we see ourselves. And if we don’t see ourselves very well in a very favourable light, if we feel like we deserved abuse that we thought we can’t seem to heal from a broken relationship, that kind of thing, it can really trigger addiction because it’s an interesting thing. Addiction is, as I see it kind of a twisted form of self care and self care is really important. And I love self care and I’ve become a self care queen and I teach it because it’s so important, but addiction it’s like, we’re trying to feel better. We’re trying to feel better. So that’s good that you want to feel better.

Candace Plattor (22:46): I’m glad you want to feel better. Now let’s find some healthy ways for you to feel better. But with trauma it’s a bit of a scary thing for me sometimes because a lot of trauma specialists seem to want to go back into the trauma and stay there for awhile, kind of dig around in that. And I don’t see the value in doing that. Personally. I need to know what’s happened for somebody. I need to be able to connect the dots and put the pieces together. So I know what I’m working with, but you know, if I knew how to build a time machine to go back in time, if I knew how to do that, to go back in time and change the trauma so that it didn’t happen well, I mean, I’d be the richest person in the whole world. People would be lining up around the planet to come see me, but that’s just not possible that I know of. So We go back into the trauma. You tell me about that we do the work that we need to do a little bit about that. And then we come into present time and we deal with now. And how would you like to deal with that trauma now going forward so that you can have a good life now and create something better for your future?

Dr Manon (24:12): I agree with that that attitude, because if you keep repeating the past, it’s like you ingrain yourself with the stories that become the justification for the behaviour. Which is then complicated because behaviours, like you say, it’s very interesting, I mean, you could say it’s self soothing, but it is also a general it’s it’s it is a form of first self care. It is you want to feel better and this, it at least short term, it does. It does, you know it just, it doesn’t work long term. So what happens then with people you’ve seen that where a memory comes up like incest, for example, and I’ve seen it in the work I do because I do a body therapy called Bowen Therapy.

Dr Manon (25:22): It puts you in parasympathetic mode where all healing takes place, the body needs to express as you’re starting to be in a more relaxed state, it will often allow memories to surface. And and its gentle i believe we find out whats needed ,when wer’re able to handle it. So in a, like an adult who recognizes this, you know, a trauma incest or something that happened so long ago that they don’t know, they don’t remember the details sometimes. because the memory can be completely fragmented because that’s just the nature of, implicit memory. But what I have seen then people go to drinking or to behaviours like that. Have you, have you seen that in any, you know, where they may not have been aware of their trauma lived completely normal lives and then it hits, how have you got experience with that?

Candace Plattor (26:41): I have seen people relapsed when that kind of thing has happened. I’ve worked with people who have relapsed when that kind of thing has happened. And what I try to do is help people see that what happened to them in the past, somebody who was incested, something like that, that was not about them. That was about the person that was creating that trauma and putting that trauma on them. That isn’t about them. I grew up in a fairly dysfunctional home. I had a very narcissistic mother successful narcissistic mother, and I really thought it was about me. I grew up thinking it was about me and nobody told me it wasn’t about me. So feeling neglected, feeling abused, being verbally abused, nothing. I said mattered that kind of stuff. I grew up believing that about myself and that I think that’s part of what, why I developed Crohn’s I feel like my body, just with all that stress finally just kind of imploded upon itself and the addiction that followed.

Candace Plattor (27:55): So I understand the trauma. I understand all of that. It took me awhile to really know, to really understand, not just up here, but trickling it down. That what she did was not about me. What she did to me was not about me. Once I knew that I could pivot, I could shift into a totally different direction and I could start to like myself, respect myself and not have to wear that anymore. Sometimes it comes up. Sometimes I get triggered. Sometimes I get flooded, you know, but not very often anymore. So that kind of healing really is possible because it isn’t about us.

Dr Manon (28:46): I think that’s such a big message actually. You know, because especially when you’re young, when, you know, before the age of seven, when you really count on the safety and the trust of the relationship and you don’t have the capacity to analyze about at that age. It impacts you and you know, it’s with you.

Candace Plattor (29:15): We’re given the message all the time that we’re supposed to honour our mother and father, well, sometimes they haven’t earned that, but nobody tells us that as children. Right? So as a child, you know, a child, isn’t going to be able to say to themselves, well, this isn’t about me. This is about their dysfunction child. Doesn’t do that. A child says it must be me……. If was just prettier or smarter this or that, or then they’d love me. It must be me. I’m not lovable the way I am. And that story just builds and builds and builds until somebody says to them, this was never about you. Speaker 6 (29:15):

Candace Plattor (29:58): You’ve always been just fine.

Dr Manon (30:00): And I think that realization is so pivotal to…….. If it isn’t about me, then whatever happened to me may have happened. If you want to go that far for me in your case.

Candace Plattor (30:21): That’s a hard one, but yes. And, when we can see it from that perspective, it’s kind of a spiritual perspective. I’m not talking religious, but kind of spiritual when we can see that, what happens to what’s happened to us can be seen as a gift as a means to grow as a choice. Again, it’s a choice of how we’re going to perceive something, but most of us need a little help to get there because for most people, trauma is very, very painful and leaves a lot of scars that last a long time until they get some help for it. So we have, we have loved ones, people with addiction who have their own scars. Why else would they hate conflict? Conflict is so scary, you know? And, and then we have, and then we have the people who are addicted, who have their own trauma and sometimes they’re living in the same house and what do you do? So you reach out, it gets, you help you figure it out. You have somebody who knows how to help you.

Dr Manon (31:30): Well, I find it very empowering to make that separation. When you get that at the beginning, that it really wasn’t about you, then it gives you a moment to reflect on if this life is actually now about me. Speaker 4 (31:54): So this is my very favourite mug that I drink out of. And it says, live your best, live a life. You live the life you love. Because today that’s what I choose. I’ve certainly had a life I didn’t love for a very long time and it’s not negotiable for me anymore.

Dr Manon (32:17): so another question I have for you is some people say that that it’s really important to forgive your parents. It might be, you know, your extended family. let’s say an incest particularly. I think that’s what I’ve attracted into practice more than any other type of abuse of what do you believe or think about this? The idea that they must forgive.

Candace Plattor (32:52): Well, first of all, I don’t believe that anybody must do anything. we live in a planet of free will, so we have a choice with everything. There’s a saying, I want to try to get this right. “That when you don’t forgive somebody, you’re drinking poison, hoping they’ll die from it.” Because not forgiving somebody. And I guess it depends on how you define the word forgive as well, but not forgiving. Somebody can be very painful to you to oneself, to not forgive. I think, you know, it took me awhile to kind of forgive my mother. I guess, if you want to use that word, I understand now a lot more of why she did what she did and what that was about for her. I understand narcissism a lot better.

Candace Plattor (33:48): So it helps me to understand that the entitlement, I don’t know where that came from for her, but I know that that was there. And I think that people who abuse, people who offend, you know, abusers have been abused, offenders have been offended. This is what we know now. I mean, I don’t have a statistic for that, but I’d say probably 99.9, nine, 9% of the time before. So if we can understand it from that perspective, it doesn’t mean, and this is important. It doesn’t mean that everybody who’s been abused is going to abuse. Doesn’t mean that everybody who’s been offended is going to offend anyone else. because that’s a choice, but a lot, most people who have gone through that in their lives or most people who offend in later life have been offended in some way. And so if we can understand that, if we can understand and have compassion for somebody, if we can have empathy for what their lives might have been like to me, that’s a form of forgiveness and it forgives ourselves too. So it’s not like I have to forgive my mother because first of all, I don’t have to. And what does forgiveness mean to you? What does it mean to me? You know?

Dr Manon (35:14): Yeah, for me it’s compassion, understanding it’s like contextual understanding, you know, what it must have been like…….. I’m not a big one for forgiveness to me. It’s like, it’s not even my place to, and like in that sense, it’s like, who am I to forgive in that sense? It’s like, it’s, going to be their work, to figure out themselves, and to forgive yourself, seems, it seems like a strange kind of thing. It’s more like, be compassionate with yourself if you went through it. You know? And so to me, forgiveness,It’s not my thing.

Candace Plattor (36:02): It depends on how you, how you define it and how you look at it, and the most important thing is for us, any of us who have been offended in any kind of way, so struggling with any kind of trauma is to be more gentle with ourselves. And if that means having compassion for somebody else, I say, go for it. But it’s about being gentle with us because we’ve already been through enough.

Dr Manon (36:30): The biochemistry of compassion changes everything the Dalai Lama says so, and I really like him, so I’ll go with that We have a couple more minutes. Is there anything that you would like to share from your experience? New Speaker (36:57): . Speaker 4 (37:13): Well, you know, like I say, when one of my favourite sayings is if nothing changes, nothing changes or to say that differently, when you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always gotten. So, you know, Dr. Phil on TV, he has this question that he asks his guests when they come on, he’ll invariably say in his Western Twain, he’ll say, so how’s that been working for you? And, and they mostly say not very well. So to me, if I ask somebody, has that been working for you? And they say, not very well. I asked them if they’re willing to do something different, are you willing to do something different if it’s not working? How about we try something else? And so when people are ready to try something else, there’s no shame in reaching out for help. it’s so important.

Dr Manon (38:14): I mean, I think everybody needs a therapist, including therapists, especially therapists, you know, we all need somebody that we can talk to, to have that hour for ourselves kind of thing. And if we, if we’re not sure what to do to make things different, we need to get some help to do that. So that’s always my hope for people is that if you need help, reach out for it, it’s here. One thing that we didn’t really talk about, but it’s, you know, what’s happening now with, with COVID. So how is that affecting, you know, addiction?

Candace Plattor (38:53): It’s affecting addiction big time because you know, the opioid addiction is, is just skyrocketing. People are dying even more from addiction and people are so scared. They’re so worried. They’re so anxious. Again, addiction makes you want to feel better. You do it so you can feel better.

Candace Plattor (39:14): So you don’t have to think about stuff like that. You don’t have to think about the fact that you could catch this thing so easily and die. And the other thing about COVID and addiction is if you have a family that has an addict struggling, still struggling in active addiction, and maybe they’re living with the family now, and it’s a 24 seven kind of thing where the addict is behaving badly the family does not know how to stop this. And they think to themselves, well, we can’t send them out because they’ll die out there. And so they’re together 24 seven on top of each other, horrible situations are happening because of that. And then there are some families who aren’t seeing, they don’t know where their addict is. They don’t know whether they’re alive or dead or what’s happening for them.

Candace Plattor (40:10): They haven’t been in touch with the family for years, maybe. So there’s all kinds of scenarios that happen with addiction and families right now in this time of sheltering in place.

Dr Manon (40:24): And with that level of fear, whether you’re actually afraid of the virus or afraid of whatever it might be, that’s related to this. because there’s so many levels that trickled down isn’t that it? Trickles exactly. It trickles down to really activating many of the stressors that activates the behaviour in the first place, you know, so that’s right. It really requires quite a choice to deal with one’s feelings about COVID.Rather than stuffing them down with addiction. it’s hard for a lot of people. So you have a way of well, first of all, you have a book that people can can read it.

Candace Plattor (41:09): I sent the book cover. I don’t know if I sent the link. I wish I had one sitting right here, but the book is called loving an addict, loving yourself now the top 10 survival tips for loving someone with an addiction. And it’s been out for about 10 years and it’s very well received. People really get a lot from it, if you don’t have the link, because I didn’t send it to you, I will, send it to you right away. And you know, if anybody wants to be in touch with me to see how we work and see whether it’s a fit for them, we’ve got a few, I’ve got a team of counselors, we’ve got a few different things that we offer.

Candace Plattor (41:57): We offer one-to-one. We offer a family program, we offer groups. So if, if you, if you would like to find out more, we all you have to do is fill in a questionnaire. I can send you that link. And it’s also on my website and we give a free 30 minute telephone consultation to talk with you about what’s going on for you and see what, how we might best help. So we’re here.

Dr Manon (42:24): That’s wonderful. I’ll definitely send links and we are international it’s not just Vancouver or BC, because we’re on zoom. So it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter where you are. Well Candace, thank you so much, really great information to share and very important information.

Thank you for joining us. For more information, go to DrManonBolliger.com.