competitive branches in at least in this country. And so, no, I enjoy that.

 

Dr. Manon  03:22

So, what made you decide to go really in that field? Like, once you were in medical school, what was the circumstance that made you interested in that?

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  03:37

So, as I was saying, it’s mostly aptitude. I mean, some people have surgical app aptitude, some have medical aptitude, you can always, you know, I mean, you have knowledge of psychology, and you have worked with psychology, and you can say, Oh, well, because my father had some issue with prostate and kind of, you know, at that time, I don’t know if those things are true. I mean, I really am and, you know, you, you process your, you know, you go through rotations, when you are a medical student or a trainee or intern, or residency. So, by that time, most people have an idea which branch they want to go, and if they can compete the branch. Yeah. So that’s how there is no hidden stories about why urology.

 

Dr. Manon  04:28

There doesn’t need to be either. And sometimes the stories are created afterwards.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  04:33

Right. Yeah. I say, you know, maybe, you know, yes. When I was medical school, yes. My father had prostate issues, but everyone has prostate issues.

 

Dr. Manon  04:44

Yeah. Now, is it my cousin, my mother’s brother was a surgeon in Belgium and his daughter. No, his granddaughter sorry. So, understand, went into urology in Belgium. So, and for her it was really to do with the specialty. Her thing was because it was an issue. He had actually received prostate cancer and ended up passing away from that. And I think that became her passion to understand that more and go into that study. But it doesn’t need to be this way. It’s enough people.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  05:33

Yeah, no, I know. I mean, I can say that. Yeah, there is some relationship between, you know, like my father, as I said, had the similar issue. But whether that was the whole factor.

 

Dr. Manon  05:48

Yeah. So more fascinating, though, is how did you come up, first of all, with the inventions because an inventor is quite a unique characteristic, not everyone who comes up with inventions. So how was your path to all that? How did you become an inventor? And what exactly did you invent?

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  06:11

It’s interesting. I mean, I didn’t know what invention means or is, before I landed in Mass General Hospital, you know, in Boston. And it’s a great place. It’s just an amazing place. If you are there, if you have any inventive mind, it will just come out, you know. So, yeah, I mean, I came up with some ideas. And suddenly, there were people who were supporting me and helping me and then I’ll file a patent. I said, what is that? So, you know, I was that much I didn’t know, before I entered Mass General. And then things led to where they were medical devices. So okay.

 

Dr. Manon  06:55

So, noticing that there is something that you could improve upon, or that was needed?

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  07:02

Yeah, or something new, and, you know, then people can improve upon those. At least, you know, at least you know, how we, I mean, the difference between human and animal is that animal they’re born, you know, the site goes through the cycle, they do the same thing, like a bird comes, builds a nest, the next generation comes, builds the same nest. In human being we move from where, you know, I leave off the next generation leaves, you know, it’s like, we keep progressing from where one generation leaves off.

 

Dr. Manon  07:39

So, what got you interested in this peace and happiness? I mean, it sounds like everyone should be interested in that. But what is it that that brought you into that? And when did that start for you that that journey?

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  07:58

That started very close to when I started medical school, probably I was, even before that I was in, I had some inclination, because my family was something like, my father was principal of a community college there. And he had some interest, a great interest in spiritual scriptures, and, you know, routines. And so, there were many people who will come to our house when I was growing up, and some great names of those times in India. And I was exposed to that, but I didn’t have that interest. until maybe first or second year of medical school. And there was a professor at that time, he was professor, he came to give a talk on meditation, and I loved his talks. And then I started reading his books, and then he became a big name after a few years, so and many of us, you know, went to that talk, many of us read his books, but I somehow, you know, loved it. And I continued both journeys journey for medicine and journey for meditation, and it has been a fantastic life. I mean, it’s like, met as many mentors in medicine, as in meditation or spirituality.

 

Dr. Manon  09:25

And how do you feel that I mean, the way medicine is often practiced. There’s usually not a lot of spiritual or really, I would say, a lot of presence and connection, even in the doctor patient relationship, often that’s missing as well. Even more so now, if so many of the younger generation where everything is computerized. Then there’s all these lab tasks and all this work. And, you know, and I know I’ve had patients that come in that I don’t think I, I even looked at my doctor’s eyes. He was constantly or she was constantly on the computer typing. And so, what is your feeling about that? And the need for I’m assuming that there’s a need for this integration.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  10:29

There is a need or not, I mean, that’s a tough question to answer. I mean, some people will do it, some people won’t do it. I mean, you have found that, you know, talking to other people in your practice. I am, I see my workplace as inspiring to me. So, I, it’s hard for me to criticize many things. But guess what you said technology. It’s great to have a computer where you can have all the documentation. But it does take away the attention from patient and that’s, that’s just the way it is. And I don’t like it, the patients don’t like it. But now it is when people have masks and when you don’t shake hands.

 

Dr. Manon  11:13

Yeah. Even more,

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  11:16

Even more than it’s interesting. How so? Yeah. I mean, I, in general, you know, I’m not a person to criticize. But yes, there are limitations, I would say there are limitations of medicine. And for me, I can say meditation has complemented and enhanced my medic medicine career, in more ways than you can think.

 

Dr. Manon  11:43

Can you expand on that? Because, yeah, I’d love to find out more. I mean, it makes sense to me internally. But can you share a little bit why you find that meditation has helped you.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  12:00

I can give you some examples. But the examples are anecdotes, I don’t have, you know, medical research behind it. I did a big surgery and patient was in ICU, and everything appeared to be good. And something tells me at midnight, wakes me up and says he’s not doing well. So, I call, and I didn’t get any signals from anyone, and I’m not trying to criticize the monitoring or something. I just went there, and he was almost in shock. So, these are little intuition things. But this was in a bigger, bigger example. But little things like that, you know, like, minor explosions or minor, you can say minor events, with major impact. So that’s, like one simple example. The other example I can give you, like, if you are in an operating room, and there are so many other people there, you can create an atmosphere where people want to help you. Or that already happens because of your how you interact. And again, this is not a criticism to people who don’t meditate, because there are some greats who can create that atmosphere without having that exposure. That’s where it comes to, in my mind body flame idea that we are born with different levels of body and mind, everyone understands that, like I’m five foot seven, somebody is six foot seven, that doesn’t change. But when you come here, then you build on that and you get physical fitness, you exercise and take care of your body, you know, to keep it healthy. Mind, you come with a certain limitation or certain potentials of your mind, which you’ve developed, you know, with neuroplasticity, or going to college or university or whatever you want to do. You develop Are you develop a system of, you know, your system that you have developed, that’s a property of mind. And we all become excellent in these two things. And then human possibility have really expanded so much. And, yeah, on the one side, you can be President Trump the other side, you can be President Biden. You know, it’s like, you know, the mind can come to that level. When it comes to the flame, we don’t pay attention to we are born with a different size of flame. So, some people are born, they won’t stress out, they won’t burn out. They don’t know what that is. They don’t need to do meditation to get there. Because they’re already at a different level. But we don’t work on the flame. And the whole emphasis that I’m trying to bring is that you should work in at it because you can be better. You need to develope all three elements.

 

Dr. Manon  15:19

And the flame just to be clear is that the…

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  15:23

It is the flame of consciousness.

 

Dr. Manon  15:26

Of consciousness. Okay. Not the innate…

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  15:33

Spirit or soul.

 

Dr. Manon  15:34

Yeah, that’s no…

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  15:37

Because your spirit and soul everyone has that got their own meaning. And that’s their, you know, touching the soul because body is not soul, mind is not soul and the flame of consciousness. So, the whole concept is we think of consciousness as a big outer cosmic consciousness, we didn’t don’t think that we have our own individual consciousness. So, we all have an individual consciousness. The way I explained this, sometimes is if you think of space, a big space, you think of hyperspace, you can think of anything under the blue sky, or and beyond, and Star Wars. But when you build a house, you don’t think of that as a space. But that is a space, that’s your individual space, which you can control, you can control the temperature, you can control the humidity, you can control the sound in there. And when you want to go to the bigger space, you open the door and go out, you know, in the open. So, the same way we all have an individual consciousness and that is the core strength, that is the source of energy. And that is what exists after we die, whether it comes back or not. But that is what exists after. From the healer point of view if you can go closer there. And that’s when the intermittent silence practice we can talk about when you go closer to the source, anything. So sometimes your even wishes can be materialized. So, so from there, if you can get the healing energy rather than just coming from body and mind, body and mind can also heal. But if you can get the energy from there, you can do a better job. That’s at least that’s my hypothesis.

 

Dr. Manon  17:45

Yeah. So yeah, it’s interesting, because you’re using the word fire. Right, which is, I mean, it’s definitely an element. But the idea of inner consciousness. That is nor the mind nor the body. So not our thoughts, nor our physiology.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  18:12

Is the watcher, the watcher.

 

Dr. Manon  18:14

It’s the watcher. Yeah. So, the one that sees are anxious actions, and what you’re saying is that, that one can? Is it that we need to work on or just become more aware of our…?

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  18:34

Becoming more aware, you are there any way you can be more closer to it. So how would you say increase the size of the flame? But basically, you’re just being more aware of your inner strength. And the more aware you become, it’s amazing how many new doors start opening.

 

Commercial Break  18:55

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Dr. Krishna Bhatta  19:11

So, we talk of meditation as we are going to some empty place. Right. It’s full of vibrant energy that can give you more than goosebumps.

 

Dr. Manon  19:53

Yeah. No, it’s interesting. Um, yeah. So, I believe I mean, these are things hard to touch. But I believe I understand what you’re what you’re saying. I mean, to me, it’s the space in which our, our inner knowing our intuition also seems to be our creativity or, for me, like downloads, when I receive information that on some level, of course, I must have come across it at some point, maybe. But in that exact moment, I’m still enough to receive it. It’s that space, right?

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  20:36

Yeah, so I say inner space has got something I say, inner conversation. So that inner conversation, there are two kinds of inner conversations. So, after you practice, intermittent silence for three months or so, you have created a space that you can enter, that’s your inner universe. So, there is some conversation that comes to you. If you are, as you said, you if you are receptive, you can receive that information. That’s where the poetry comes, that’s where the inventions comes, that’s where the creativity comes, music comes in. And many, you know, musicians will agree that, you know, they think comes to them, once they are, you know, in it, it just flows. The second part is you can bring some conversation, and brainstorm there in the quietness of your own inner space.

 

Dr. Manon  21:36

Like, as in ask, what some would say, ask the universe, you know, but in in a sense, that is what it is. Right? And it’s…yeah, it’s interesting what, what enters is not, like you said, or correct me if I’m not getting what you’re saying. But it’s not. It’s not predominantly a thought it’s beyond the thinking. And beyond the sensations that we feel in our body, it just appears like, I didn’t know, I see it like, like, literally like a, like a download. But I don’t know if it comes from here or up here. Like, I get it in nature, you know, I get it. in stillness, I get it. When I when I was working with patients.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  22:25

A stillness, right? That’s what we are trying to create is stillness now. Yeah.

 

Dr. Manon  22:31

Yeah, we get too, too busy to, to notice.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  22:36

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you is like, what, if the mind doesn’t know the eyes do not see. So, if we are not thinking about the flame in the way I’m trying to put it, and it’s not like I made it up, if there is an entity like that. I’m just using expression of a different, you know, you said flame. I mean, one of the things about flame or fire is that it goes up. And grace also goes up. People say, oh, Grace, you know, or any of the energy that comes from inside its kind of, you know, it moves up. That’s the nature.

 

Dr. Manon  23:17

So, what is when you say intermittent silence? What is what is it that you mean by that? And what’s the practice of that.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  23:31

So, it’s what it says 10 minutes of silence every day, if you can practice. There are many people who go on meditation retreats, I don’t know, if you I mean, you may know of something. And they go for 10 days of silence. And they come out and some of them say, you know, God, it was horrible. And some of them will say, it was amazing. But that’s one way to do it. And I’m not against it, I have done it myself several times, in seven days, 10 days, three days. And there is other meditation routines that go along with that. So that’s like concentrated event. But if you do 10 minutes every day, here is what happens. So, there are four steps to that. One is you close your mouth. So, when you close your mouth, all the brain cells and the pathway that is connected with speech expression. That gets rested for 10 minutes. Then you close your eyes, all the pathway, visual pathway optic pathway, they get rested along with the power of observation. And so now you’re looking inside instead of looking outside. Then there is a silent listening. And that silent listening is just let the sound go. Whatever sound is there in your house or in your room. You don’t create don’t Put music or don’t put bells or it just any sound that’s there, just let it pass through. And the fourth one is silent watching of thought, thoughts. So, any thought that’s going in, you know, in your brain, don’t try to focus it, don’t try to quiet your mind because you can’t do it just it won’t happen. Mind is minding, right? You know, thoughts will keep flowing. And so, these are the four steps. And in the beginning, it may be uncomfortable, because we are not used to, you know, very used to outside. But once you get it, it’s amazing. It’s not in on an empty mind. It’s not an empty mind. Because mind is not going to be right.

 

Dr. Manon  25:46

No, no, I think the job of thoughts is to be thinking,

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  25:51

Well, I tell a story. Like I created his story. You know, it’s like Mr. Tom, Professor, Tom thinker. You know, it’s like he goes to some Swamis and reads about it. And he’s a professor of philosophy. And everybody says, oh, watching the thoughts is like watching traffic go by on a road. So, he said, Okay, I’ll test it out. You know, he’s a professor in Ivy League school. So, what best clothes to place to go then it goes to Glasgow, Montana, which is the remote test pace place you can be goes in the boonies stands on the road. And on one truck goes by another car goes by, you know, it’s like, between them, there are five minutes, is it standing on the road? And when you know, they go by their Look at him, you know, who is this guy? What is he doing? So, then he thinks, okay, I thought it will be a quiet place, but it’s too quiet. Maybe the SWAMI meant I should be on a highway. So, then he comes to mass spike in Boston, stands in the middle of the mass spike. And, you know, it’s, it’s not good for him either. He can’t get the piece that he was thinking and watching the traffic because he had to dodge the trucks and cars, the cars go by, until he was picked up by a police and he had to promise he won’t do that. Professor, thinker, Professor of Philosophy won’t do that. But the whole point is, that’s what we do. When people say watch your thoughts. We stand in the middle of the thought, and we try to stop some thoughts are focused on thoughts. That’s not the idea. I think the idea is to really watch it from outside. And in so doing, suddenly, you will find that you are beyond the mind. And that’s where you can come closer and closer to the flame.

 

Dr. Manon  27:46

Yeah, I like I like the analogy you’ve created there. I’m very visual. So, it helps to see it that way. Interesting.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  27:57

Like trying to stop an 18-Wheeler on highway.

 

Dr. Manon  28:01

So, what your the RELAXX r e l a x x and what is that?

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  28:11

So that is that has got the mind body flame concept. Okay, and it has got intermittent silence. And then it has a lot of other deeper meditations. So, there are many, many meditation apps. But I think we have a differentiator; we are a little deeper in content and context. And we are a little different because we do have the element of flame that’s coming into picture. I mean, I’m not saying all meditation apps, but most of the others cater to body and mind. And, you know, it’s like, they will create some guided meditation, feel good meditation, I call them.

 

Dr. Manon  28:55

No to me.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  28:58

Yeah, I mean, no fun in that in their work as well. That those things don’t work. You know, it’s like,

 

Dr. Manon  29:08

I mean, at least I say different, different strokes for different folks. Right. Different things like there is no wrong thing. It’s wherever, whatever relating to you.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  29:18

But I think people are ready to go have a deep dive. And I think this application, at least I think it offers them and this is new, so check it out.

 

Dr. Manon  29:32

Yeah, no, I’ll look into that. Yeah, well, it’s uh, so have you had an opportunity yet to have some of your patients or like that, to try it to see to see if it impacts their ability to heal faster or to experience less discomfort or pain or have you had an opportunity to try that yet or to know

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  29:59

So, I have tried to keep separate tracks. Yeah. So, it is if I do in if I have to do that, in my practice, I will have to go through IRB approval I will have to create. And the whole nine yards, and in my specialty may not be great, but yeah, I mean, the interaction with patients, you know, sometimes they, they share more things. And I had one patient who went to one of the local libraries, he was 87 or 88 years old. And bought got the book Journey from Life to Life. made an appointment with me. And he comes every year, so he made an appointment follow up. And when he came, he talked very little about his medical problem. He talked about the book, and he says, I’m a Christian, does it apply to me?

 

Dr. Manon  31:01

There’s a lot.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  31:04

So, it was interesting, very interesting. So yeah, I mean, sometimes you have that those occasional interactions, but I tried to keep it separate. And I think I feel that’s a better way to do it. If they want to know more about this, they will contact me they can.

 

Dr. Manon  31:22

But I think it’s I think the tides are really changing. Now, you know, 2021 I think a lot of people are asking many more questions about things in general, because of possibly what we experienced or gone through. So, I think I yeah, I feel and that’s more that sense. no proof yet, but it feels as if there is a different consciousness coming. That’s my feeling. And, you know, it’s hard to know how you get these feelings, but that’s what I’m experiencing.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  31:59

So, no, I agree with you. The higher purpose I talked about, right, in the book, the title. So, what is the higher purpose it is changing? You know, I, I, I read a book, which was more about you know, how life was in the concentration camp for a Jew, you know, who is certain that book? For him, the higher purpose is to somehow get out of there and go to family. And in our history, you know, not very ancient history, you know, not I mean, 200 years, 300 years. What was it? You know, France was fighting with England and India was fighting with Pakistan or, you know, I mean, it’s like, the life was not the same way as it is now. Now. A lot of people can think freely, they don’t have under you know, oppression. They have enough means they’re not worried about food on the table. So, yeah, as you said, the thing whole thing changes, you know, I mean, where do you go changes like this Coronavirus? It changed a lot of habits and for good and bad both sides.

 

Dr. Manon  33:20

Yeah.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  33:21

And I admire your work, though. I was looking at some of the things you’re doing. Don’t know too much about it, you know, can share that in one minute or two minutes?

 

Dr. Manon  33:31

Yeah. Well, what is it that that that attracted you to it? Or what is it that that you find interesting? Then I can…because there’s so many, I could talk for hours about it. But what’s the aspect of

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  33:45

one of your lines was life is what you make of it or something? Something?

 

Dr. Manon  33:49

How you live is how you heal.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  33:52

How you live is how you heal. Yeah. Yeah. I like that line.

 

Dr. Manon  33:59

Well, it’s, it was true of me. 100%. And I think I’ve always seen, well, not all I had to have diseases. And believe that there’s, you know, I thought there were certain ways of getting through things. And it’s like I kept learning that there’s more, there’s just more than then, like you’re saying and then thoughts. So, a lot of it for me at first was to realize that thoughts had a role. But they also are, it’s also their job. And that you don’t have to believe all your thoughts. And then I also understood that emotion is much more complicated. It is literally a surge that takes maybe 90 seconds. But feelings is what it’s the stories we attach to our emotions. And so, as I dealt with people in pain, and whether it’s physical pain, or emotional pain, it all comes the same. There’s a stuckness like a rigidity, or a holding on to something as if that was safety, which is, which is maybe an instinct, in fact, you know, it’s a common instinct to hold on to what is because people don’t like change. But healing is, it’s that process. So, you have to incorporate healing, and it is what you do, it’s how you live literally. And you can’t separate it, it’s how you are, how you are being and every, whether it’s a decision or the energy that you are surrounding yourself with the choices, the time for yourself, all of that’s integrated, you can’t separate the wholeness, you know, of our own beings, you know, so, and I think with the physical work that I do two is that the body stores a lot of this. And a lot of what we experience and so part of my work is allowing the body to release this and, and there’s something called it in with passion, it’s called interoception is our ability to feel inside. And when people connect to their bodies in that way, not with their response. But in their feeling sense. It, it changes their consciousness, they become truly the observer, they realize there’s more they’re part of something much bigger, right? And that’s, I think, the joy that people get, after a session they go. This is very strange, not that they understand it or something. Because it’s not very…sometimes simple things are harder to understand. But simple things work.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  37:16

I get it. Yeah. Yeah, it’s uh, it’s funny, you mentioned about emotions, I use the word emotional is storms. If you do, if you practice, say intermittent silence for some time, and, and you are hit with an emotional storm, you get that, you know, with that practice of silence, you have developed something, you know, a quality in you where you can see your emotional storm rising from a little distance that little gap gives you the strength to deal with it in a more favorable way.

 

Dr. Manon  37:58

Yeah. Yeah. It’s like you don’t you’re not attached. You don’t believe that the same way you don’t believe your thoughts. You observe like, Oh, I like the words, or I think that’s great.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  38:09

Yeah. That is like that’s what you described, right? Like it comes as a surprise. You said I didn’t say tsunami but.

 

Dr. Manon  38:19

Some people they’ve met that’s reality. Right. And, and I think yeah, if we don’t have attach meaning to it, right. It is like a storm. It passes. You know, so I think it’s interesting. Anyway, our time is up. But is there any last statement you wanted to say? That went very fast.

 

Dr. Krishna Bhatta  38:42

Oh, no. last statement, is to relax with two x. And there is a website relax.org. If you go there, you can find the download, but you can find it if you search it on App Store or Google Play Store.

 

Dr. Manon  38:57

Great. Okay. Well, thank you very much Dr. Bhatta and until another time.

Thank you for joining us. For more information, go to DrManonBolliger.com.