beautiful person. And it totally inspired me, but I felt like what I was doing in my practice is one thing and this was something else I didn’t see until much later how everything he taught is so essential to everything we do. You know that there is a synergy between these parts. And I did not see the synergy at first, I was like, this is very cool. And this is what I do. What’s your relationship to learning this and being in his universe?

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 05:27

So, for me, I think even like, what came up for me when you were sharing that is the idea of the E Myth. And I think many of us have read that book or were at least peripherally aware of that book. And so, we have whatever experience we have, we get into these, you know, healing techniques and these careers. And we do it because we love it. And a lot of times we’ll ignore some of those external things like marketing and sales. And, you know, for me, one of the big breakthroughs was, there was a man that came into my practice, very blue collar, you know, really reminded me of my dad, you know, just a hard life probably like construction type blue collar work. And this guy’s neck on X ray was one of the worst I’ve seen. And he’s like, I’ve just never had any pain before. Like, what do I need, and this guy was a little gruff, and I was a few months into being a doctor. And I did not communicate to him in a way that was fully honest. Right, I was afraid of how he would react to it, or he wouldn’t want to hear what I had to say. And so honestly did a horrible job communicating to him. And what I held after that was, that man’s lack of health in the future is in some part, my fault because of my poor communication. Right, because I let myself get in the way of just being honest, so that the truth and the decision was truly in his ballpark. And so, I think, for me, when I think about my healing journey, and all the things I’ve added, you know, on top of chiropractic, in kind of becoming a high performance coach through Brendon Bouchard. And the work he does, one of my biggest takeaways is, if I only am in contact with 10 people, that’s all the positive I can do. If it’s 100, if it’s 1000, if it’s 10,000, it amplifies my ability to do good on the planet. And that might be through clear communication might be through marketing, it might be sales, when done in a way that creates a win win for me and the person getting out of our relationship, what they’re hoping to get out of it. So…

 

Dr. Manon 07:39

Yeah, but it’s such a, like, it’s interesting, because so many practitioners have this feeling, you know, that selling is bad, and oh, my god, I’ll get somebody else to do that. And I have, I don’t know, it never occurred to me that it’s a problem. But I think I always looked at it like, I’m so enthusiastic about what I do that I just want everyone to know about this and get the help that happened to me, you know.

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 08:11

Yeah

 

Manon Bolliger 08:12

I had, I had not time to get into my whole story here. But you know, I had a little problem with my back. And I had a scoliosis and it straightened out with a very little-known treatment, which turned out I created a whole college it’s called Bowen College. And it’s Bowen therapy is the therapy, at the time, it didn’t, you know, I didn’t even realize how important it was this, that my back straight because I was distracted by other things I was doing in my life, but I realized how much pain I had been in with it you know, unaddressed, right. But so for me, it was like, every time I told my story, somebody else came in and was able to get this relief and this, you know, transformation and it’s like, wow, oh, was I selling? Just like, it’s like when you don’t see it as selling because it’s doesn’t feel it’s in your heart. You want to share the experience you’ve had with others. It’s not selling, right. It’s doesn’t feel like and then you define selling as you wish, I mean, if selling is a bad word, change the word but you’re, you’re sharing a gift. A path, you know, so, and it’s such a hang-up for so many people but what I found it when I took the marketing courses, I realized, Wow, there’s so much issues that people have about money and the flow of money, the exchange of money, the self-worth the value that there was so much psychology that I learned, more so that I did in my naturopathic college, I actually really understood human nature to do such a fabulous degree through business, you know, through marketing. So, anyway, enough about all that, but I’m just excited to see but so for you like, because not everyone does that it’s a kind of unique path. Many practitioners are just in their practice. Well, what made you realize, I’ve got to learn more, I’ve got to help more people. I can you go back into what that was all about for you?

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 10:40

Yeah, I think I’m incredibly curious. Yeah, like, and I think that’s a natural gift that may drive, you know, some friends, family, and professors crazy. And at the same time, I consider it a real gift. So even in chiropractic school, there’s all these techniques that have all these people’s names on them, and they’re treated like religions, like, oh, I do this one, and I don’t believe in anything else. And I was just like, gosh, I’m going to try all of it out. And, and for a long time, me being so diffuse in my focus, I would say, made me a worse chiropractor in school. But what it allowed me to do, I think, is to evolve to like, what are some of the best things that can help? And so, I was always looking at new techniques in a school of like a couple 1000 Kids, I was one of I think there were 12 people in our physical therapy department. So, I’m like, yeah, how can you address the joints and ignore the muscles? You know, and I just kept adding things and, and adding these techniques and going wow I’m doing the exact technique on what seems to be the exact same people. And there’s like that bell curve of like, oh, these people are getting better, why aren’t these other people? So, then I just kept adding and exploring and I had a, you know, real breakthrough. This one was even in the last maybe five to ten years. Research studies around chronic low back pain are like oh, of the top 10 predictors for chronic low back pain, only three are physical. Right, if we’re only addressing the physical through, like chiropractic and physical therapy, like we’re missing 70% of our opportunity actually help people. So, like adding in neuro linguistic programming to help address the unconscious mind, or you know, getting better with my coaching and mentoring so I could ask questions to allow people to come to their own truth. So, they could really hold on to it and move forward with that, rather than me, telling them and maybe they believe it long enough to stick around for a few visits or to be dedicated for a month or two. But yeah, just trying to get better at conveying information, having more tools. And then here’s the last piece that I see a lot in the healing industries. If I truly care about my patients, I may push them harder towards a $20 book I didn’t write, then I will for 1000s of dollars of care with me, right? Like, the true solution for them, may be outside of me. And if I’m actually a true advocate for them, I need to be in my abundance, right. And if I’m not good at sales and marketing in the conversation, I’m going to be out of abundance, which is going to make me grasping, right? So, I need to be in flow in abundance so that I can be truly honest, and organic with the recommendations that I make.

 

Dr. Manon 13:39

Yeah, no, that’s, like I very much relate to that process. But it’s interesting. Curiosity is probably the, the, the inner gift, right? Curious about everything, you know, and I think that is a lifesaver. And I don’t know the stats on how many curious people there.

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 14:00

Yeah. I’ve never looked into that.

 

Manon Bolliger 14:03

I wonder if this…yeah, you know, I wonder if that is the element. I’m just thinking about what, what’s been happening in the last couple of years, you know.

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 14:15

Uhh Huh.

 

Manon Bolliger 14:16

Whether possibly curiosity is like, Well, okay, cool. They’re doing an experiment, even if, you know, there’s statements about safe and effective we it’s still an experiment. I’m curious what the results will be. Doesn’t mean I want to be in it. And sometimes curiosity makes you want to jump in, right. Like sometimes, you know, I’ve done things that I don’t know the end result. In fact, I’ve done it to discover the unknown, you know, so, so but the curiosity plays I think it’s interesting how because I was looking at, you know, mass formation and what that angst that so many people settled in to belong and to get rid of that free floating anxiety. But curiosity. It’s almost like curiosity is the…is the what’s the word in English? The not the opposite, but…

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 15:22

Like the antithesis.

 

Manon Bolliger 15:24

The Antithesis. It almost says it’s almost like, there and with curiosity, you could have that sense of free floating in some ways, right? But it doesn’t need a home.

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 15:37

Well, I think like, I really like all picture things as frameworks many times. And I’m like, oh, or I’ll look at like calculus, like, how does this system respond at zero? How does the system respond at infinity? And then in between, as well. And so, I’ll move things to one extreme or the other to go oh, like, you know, I can do a little bit of this not a big deal. What if I did it all the time? Or I can, if I do a little bit of this, it’s all right. But what if I didn’t do it at all? That may or may not work as well. And so, when we look at, like, let’s just say control, which is, I would say is huge on the planet right now. And to be honest, it’s huge within some healing industries, right?

 

Manon Bolliger 16:19

Oh Absolutely.

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 16:20

Do as I say. Oh, listen to the person in the white code, all of these things. So, we’ve got like control. But we’ve also got externalizing our truth? Right. Like, I’m not gonna think about this, I’m gonna lean into a paradigm, a framework, a belief, that’s not to be questioned

 

Commercial Break 16:38

Manon Bolliger here, and I want to thank you for taking actionable steps towards engaging your healing journey, and helping others discover their path by watching, sharing, subscribing, and reviewing these podcasts. Every review and share helps spread the word, these different perspectives and choices and options for healing. And to thank you, I’d like to invite you to sign up to my free seven sequence email tips on health and healing for everyday life. You can go to healerscafe.com tips, thanks so much.

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 17:21

Right, so really that idea of like curiosity, and then listening to internal truth, right, it makes things…yeah, they’re just at odds with each other. And, you know, and I think the static things from the past and I find this a lot in so many different areas, like if we name something, and we put it on some type of an altar, then we’re really not supposed to touch it or look at it or question it again. And what I feel is true, I’ve always felt this, I should be able to argue both sides of a question. And then if I’m on the right side of myself, I should still just come up with the same answer. And I just find that a lot of people are not comfortable asking questions, that are not comfortable taking something off the altar and kind of putting it in the flame of truth to see what burns away.

 

Manon Bolliger 18:18

Now, that’s…I’m very visual. So, I really saw your, your description. Culpable visual way, but it’s, it really is, that’s what the process is, is putting it out for full questioning, taking it off the altar. But you know, it’s like, connecting to whether you call it your inner wisdom or your intuition or your superconscious or whatever, there’s a million terms. Yeah, for this, but we have lost track how to do this.

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 18:56

Yeah, I’ve really…so intuition is one of my like…my favorite geek out subjects. I have a TEDx talk on intuition, learning the language of dude. And it’s really about listening to that. And there’s, there’s tremendous research around intuition about intuition being one of the top nine things statistically, that are likely to help you survive a…to experience a radical remission, you get that terminal cancer diagnosis, right? What’s that thing? One of the things that can help you survive its intuition. Last week, I did a talk on intuitive leadership, and I’m quoting people like Oprah and Steve Jobs and Albert Einstein. And, you know, and again, getting back to like, can we question things like the definition of science that I grew up with was, you know, we question everything, In God We Trust all you know, everybody else must bring data and research and, and so yeah, I love blending intuition. With all the intelligence that humanity has to develop, and then if we can let go of attachment to the outcome. Yeah, maybe we’ll get to the best, you know, highest place that we can.

 

Manon Bolliger 20:11

Yeah, no, no, that is funny because I will share this. But in my own story, I was actually diagnosed with stage four cancer. And it’s, I was surprised that I had it. Honestly, I was that disconnected, but not in my unconscious. Because in my unconscious I wrote in my diary, this is the day my cancer starts. A year later.

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 20:42

Wow.

 

Manon Bolliger 20:43

I had it, you know. I had no, I only found out because somebody got my long story but got my diary. Then I got my diary back. Then I read this, I went, Oh, my God. But here’s the thing. I knew when I was on the on the Oncology Board, and apparently, I signed away all these papers. And I shouldn’t know better because I have a legal background. But you know, you don’t always use that when you’re in kind of like, oh, my God, this is really what’s happening. Anyway, and I just bolted, and I went, No, I am not doing a hysterectomy. I am not doing this. This is not my path. And it was like that deep knowing that this is not my time. And it’s not this way. And it’s like you cannot cut out a cancerous thing. When you have a cancerous relationship, whether it’s with yourself or with another, it’s all the same, you know? And then it’s like, Okay, that’s it. So, to me, intuition has always been…I want to, to master everything about it. You know, that’s, I took also Chris Duncan, do you know his work?

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 22:02

No, I don’t.

 

Manon Bolliger 22:03

Okay, he’s, what’s his book? It’s called you are not broken, it was the same talk, subject as my TEDx talk. That was the title. It was something new, you’re not gonna, you are not? What was it? Your body is smarter than you think it was. But it was the sunblind was we are, we may have our wires crossed, but we’re not broken. But it was the same the thinking and he goes into a lot of intuitive work. And I actually became a coach within his organization. Because I’ve been on the pursuit through everything. Whilst I every way to understand intuition deeply, you know, so it’s very funny, but that’s your thing, too. Well, what about the shaman experience? What is that? How does that fit into all of your life and curiosity?

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 23:01

So, there was a plant medicine that I would say kicked it off, you know, and I was also at the was it a very difficult time in my life. You know, growing up in Wyoming with a lot of country western music. I always described my, my spiritual awakening as a bad country western song, like, lost, my girl lost my dog lost my house crashed my truck, you know, like, just this onslaught of like six months of, you know, some of the worst things happening. And what came out of that was intuition started happening, synchronicities started happening. And I was like, you know what, like, there’s something here and I’m like, I want to start explore. I know, you know, there’s this great poem that says, my boat hits something deep, nothing happened. Sound silence waves, nothing happened. Or maybe I’m living in the middle of my new life. Right. And that’s how it was for me. I’m like, I don’t know what’s different, but something’s different. And these words started showing up that I had never heard before. And so I would like I would be on Google or YouTube for like, 12 hours, just like, oh, opening 10 pages. I’m gonna read all of this. Any word I didn’t know in those 10 pages, I would open more pages and read all of that I would, I would go to Barnes and Noble, and spend like, eight hours I might read six books. I would buy another six books just because I felt guilty about the ones I’d already read for free. But I was just like ravenous for all this information. And I think how the shamanic part really started was these people would be face down on my chiropractic tables, and I would be like, now I know I was doing extraction work. I was doing cord cuttings. I was I was doing work that I had never heard of never read about, but I knew what to do. And so that was the initial thread that I started pulling and luckily, had these people around me like, oh, that’s Qigong. Oh, that’s Reiki. Oh, that’s shamanism. Like Oh, stop doing that you’re gonna kill yourself, let’s, here’s how we’ll modify that thing so you’re energetically clean in it, you know. So I had those people around me. And then from there, you know, that was 17 years ago. And from there, it’s like, the thing on the planet I’m most interested in, right, like, even, you know, chiropractic, I still do a little of that, but I’m really interested more in souls than I am in spines. Right. And I find that an unhealed soul probably causes more spinal issues and spinal issues anyway. So you know, how do you dive in and just do all of it? And then, yeah, I’ve trained with a lot of shamanic teachers and integrated into like it really, I really try to treat my life as a ceremony in as many ways as possible, including that overlap into chiropractic and coaching. And yeah and speaking.

 

Manon Bolliger 26:00

Wow, I feel like I met a brother.

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 26:04

I get that about you, for sure. For sure.

 

Manon Bolliger 26:09

That’s what happens with spontaneous no coincidences? Yeah. Oh. Okay. So, our time was kind of coming together, what I wanted to ask you, it’s just getting really clear. So, we’re in troubled times, to say the least we’re in transitioning times. There’s a lot of lack of knowledge. There’s a lot of people coming to realizations of what is actually happening. And then there’s a very strong, you know, religious, I would say it’s probably more organized religion, beliefs of the End of Times and major transitions, and there’s paragraphs to prove just about everything. I wasn’t raised in that way. I definitely have spiritual connection. So, I can’t really recite any of that, but I have no problems with as long as there’s no power over, I’m really quite happy. What do you see happening? Some, you know, they say it’s also this great awakening. What is your intuitive sense? Or vision of what? What we’re in for the next little while here?

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 27:39

Yeah. It’s interesting. I kind of wanted to ask you, I think a lot of times in healing modalities, we spend a lot of time in description and diagnosis. And it’s easy to do that. And so yeah, like, what’s the prescription? Like? What’s the thing that’s actually going to pull us forward? And, and as you were talking, the vision I had was of individuation, right. Like when I was probably 16, or 17 years old, I was grounded all the time. Right? Because I was individuating and needing to express myself outside the control of my parents. Right? And so, I believe my belief is what’s happening now is, there’s a lot of control that’s happening. There’s a lot of old frameworks, and there’s things on the altar that we’re just not supposed to touch or question. Right? A lot of those things on the altar make a lot of money for people. Right? And so, I feel like there is an awakening happening and the control mechanisms don’t really want that to happen. It doesn’t benefit what’s setup right. So that’s kind of loosely what I think is happening. So, you know, when I look, I’ve been looking at like, yeah, how do I be a force for good on the planet? And one of the things that keeps coming up as truth, you know, capital T truth. And I think intuition can help get us there. I think curiosity can help get us there. We all know when a spouse is not being honest with us, we know and, you know, we read that Olestra this fat free chemical makes fat free Doritos healthy like we know that’s not true, might take another decade for the science to come out. But in a couple of ways, I’ve looked at this one is there’s a book called power versus force. Very interesting book. I think people really like it; it puts consciousness on a scale from zero to 1000. You know, under 200 is basically anything disempowering. 200 Courage steps and above that are things like love, peace, compassion. So, I really wondered like what gets us from apathy, anger, fear, all of these negative vibrational states. And the answer to move you up the entire ladder is this truth. It’s truth with yourself and truth with others, I’m like, oh, that makes sense. And then when I looked at, like the dissolution or the dissolving of, you know, a lot of the big communist regimes in the last 100 years, and one of the things that really played into that was just not agreeing with things that aren’t truth. And I think there’s a lot of that up right now. So, it’s just really, you just speak your truth, you be in your truth. You look for capital T, truth, not little T truth. Right. And, with that, combined with that is something that came out of that was an expression of the arts. Right, I believe it was in Yugoslavia, there was this band that was pretty controversial. And they were going to do a show and the government’s like, you’re too controversial, you can’t have the show. And finally, it woke people up like, this is a musical group. You’re controlling them from performing. And it like, woke them up. And they really feel like that’s part of what dissolved that communist regime. So that’s what I’ve really been leaning into in trying to empower people. Like if I tell you the truth, my truth, you may or may not believe it, if I can help you find tools to discover your own truth through intuition or research or asking good questions, then you’ll be fed forever, and it won’t matter if they say salt is good or bad, cholesterol is good or bad, right? Like all these external things, like if you can find the truth for yourself that will spread like a flame and I think will hopefully burn down the parts of this structure that really aren’t serving humanity. So, I’ve never expressed this in an interview like this before, but I think that’s for me, where I’m at can I help people find their truth? You know, and then live into it.

 

Manon Bolliger 29:16

That’s very powerful. Yeah, I like that. I think I’m just gonna leave it at that because says it all well, thank you so much for saying yes. And I really enjoyed our time together.

 

Dr Morgan Oaks 32:04

Yeah, I did as well. I have a feeling there’s a lot of conversations for us in the future. And yeah, just really grateful for you holding this space and, and asking healers the questions that will help you know, help people find health healing happiness, and maybe that truth for themselves. So, thank you.

 

ENDING: 41:33

Thank you for joining us at the Healers Café with Manon Bolliger. Continue your healing journey by visiting TheHealersCafe.com and her website and discover how to listen to your body and reboot optimal health or DrManonBolliger.com/tips.