comes and goes. Like recently, I’ve had a little fear of certain crawly bugs outside. But that comes and goes like, if I don’t see them, well, that’s fine. But anxiety is a little bit more persistent and kind of colors, everything you do. And so I would notice, like for four weeks leading up to a flight, if I had to take a flight, I just started to get worse and worse and worse, like, Okay, I’m going to manage this and started to discover not only through my own, you know, inner work and therapy and all that, but through taking a fear of flying course, through a number of different spiritual paths that I’ve journeyed on and learning from a lot of amazing teachers out there. These seven principles are keys that I talked about in the book, and that they make a huge difference in my life, especially in the times we’re currently living in right. To find a sense of calm in the storm, you know, that even when you’re in a hurricane is always the eye of the hurricane. So, I’m always, you know, centering and finding that eye of the hurricane and me in the midst of all of this. And that’s so that’s how the book, you know, the book was born out of all of that.

 

Manon Bolliger 03:39

And then what, what were or what are the main that you can share, but asked me to read the entire book here, because then people will be able to have access to it. There’ll be a link where they can find out where to get it. But what are the what are the main things where you’ve, you’ve tied in sort of spirituality, meditation and the understanding of anxiety? Like, how, how manageable is that in your experience?

 

Rev Connie Habash 04:11

Well, it takes definitely a mindset shift in our perception and our shift in how we look at, say, certain practices that we expect to be calming, like meditation, yoga, etc. So, a lot of us, I mean, I do that I practice all of that, and that’s certainly part of myself care. But many of us have sought out those experiences and practices so that we can combat anxiety. And it’s really great while we’re on the mat and Wayne and Shavasana or if we’re if we happen to be able to get into a deeper state of meditation, and then you know, about 10, 15, 20 minutes, an hour or two after you’re done with your yoga class or whatever it is, or you’re done praying or chanting, it all comes back again. And so first of all, that those things are important, but they’re, they’re necessary, but probably not sufficient to changing a pattern of anxiety within us, we need to be able to deal with actually what’s going on in our consciousness in our thoughts, not just calming, soothing practices. Um, and that we don’t, to not judge ourselves, especially as people on the spiritual path who are really committed to like, okay, inner peace and all of that, to not judge ourselves when the anxiety comes up. Because one of the things that I focus on the book and then I work with my clients on is that don’t, don’t expect your anxiety to completely go away. Because that’s a real setup. You know, if it goes away for a while, you think I’ve got it licked, and then it comes back, you think, Oh, my God, what did I do wrong, like, I’ve messed up again, or if I back slid, or, obviously, all the work I did before didn’t matter, I must not be as evolved as I thought I was, or any of those like judgments, right? Anxiety is going to arise from time to time, because it’s, we’re humans, and it’s a human emotion. So, what I’m working people toward is resilience, and being able to feel confident that, oh, now I know exactly what to do when anxiety arises. Now I know how to welcome it in and work through it and allow it to move through like a wave in this conscious way. And I have these practices in which I can consciously do that. So that anxiety becomes more of it, it’s like a, like I talked about the title awakening from anxiety is not just getting over your anxiety or releasing our anxiety, it’s, it’s about experiencing a spiritual awakening through the process of what the anxiety brings as sort of a gift. It’s not pleasant at first, but there’s, you know, one of the things I talked about as we’re learning to listen to the anxiety or any emotion, it could be anger, it could be grief, as, as a teacher, it’s bringing wisdom, it’s bringing guidance, it’s bringing a sense of direction, it’s letting you know, what matters, what’s important, where you need to set a boundary, etc. So that’s, that’s sort of the general premise of the book, as is looking at anxiety, not as a horrible problem that you’ve got to get rid of, but as something as part of the human condition that you can learn to be resilient with and learn to ride the waves into greater and greater personal growth and spiritual awakening.

 

Manon Bolliger 07:31

Yeah, I mean, it makes a lot of sense, what you’re saying, to me, as a general way, also of looking at, at many diseases or, you know, not getting stuck in a fight against the symptoms or against the body. It’s more like going, Okay, what’s it telling me? You know, and learning to listen? You know, what is it? Why is it there? or why? Why is it surfacing? what triggers this or that, let’s say, like, you know, more inflammation or all of that, just noticing it and, and working with it, like a teacher. And, and then, you know, course correcting, or learning better boundaries sometimes are learning to say no, or sometimes learning to say yes, right, whatever it might be, right. Yeah. So, it’s interesting, that you’re saying, like anxiety, we can treat it like a friend. I mean, it’s there in and we need, it’ll come, it’ll go. And we can work alongside it as a teacher for greater consciousness.

 

Rev Connie Habash 08:41

Absolutely. One of the sections in the book, I talk about the mistakes that I think spiritual people make, in response to their anxiety, and what you were talking about, about it being, you know, a teacher, right, which was what I was saying, as well, it also brings up that some people can, one of the spiritual mistakes is the misunderstanding of the law of attraction. A lot of people in spiritual communities have heard of law of attraction where your thoughts create your reality, that kind of idea. And I’m sure you’ve seen this in your practice, Dr. M, that people who ascribe to that tend to blame themselves, right, and attack themselves for getting ill or having the anxiety on like, I manifested that I created that and I’m, you know, I’m a mess. I’m like, I blew it.

 

Rev Connie Habash 09:34

I obviously have messed up thoughts and all of that, and that does nothing really but create more anxiety. But, but also that there’s, um, I think people really need to understand that concept a little bit more deeply. First of all, not every thought that we have is going to create something. It takes a lot more thoughts than that. In fact, when I took the fear of flying training that I went to a clinic here in San Francisco, they reminded us that, you know, you may be having fears about the plane crashing, but there’s a lot of other people on the plane that are not, that are very clear that the plane is going to land safely. And so that was really calming to me to realize, okay, not every thought that I have is going to create something bad. And whatever symptom I have, whether it’s physical or emotional, isn’t necessarily me, you know, messing up with all of my thoughts, but that we’re not…there are certainly things that happened to us that are not in our control. Right, like what’s going on with the pandemic, not really, you know, in or the fires going on, it’s not in our control. Now, we could say, okay, we contributed to some of that, I guess we could have that discussion. But ultimately, it’s really, that our thoughts are creating our experience of reality, right? So, depending on how we’re thinking about all these experiences we’re going through will determine whether we experience a whole lot of anxiety about them or not. And that’s how I shift people into is like, okay, you can influence your experience of things. But you didn’t, you know, you’re not like if you have cancer or something like that, don’t beat yourself up. You’re not, you didn’t create that. And now like you’re you’ve fallen off the spiritual wagon, you weren’t, didn’t do enough good spiritual practices to prevent the cancer. It’s like, okay, it’s here. And now I can embrace and work with it and shift the way I’m thinking about so that my experience of going through that healing process isn’t as anxiety provoking, if that makes sense.

 

Manon Bolliger 11:45

Yeah. Well, it’s like understanding sort of the critic, not critical thinking, critical thinking has another meaning like self-criticism, criticizing, thinking, you know, as, as really not being useful. It’s very, you know, ego driven, that’s very much the self-conscious, that is driving that type of thought. And so, I wonder what you’re thinking about this, but I often tell my patients Well, if you don’t like the thought, don’t invest time in the thought, because it’s like, it the job of thoughts is to basically keep thinking, you know, because we’re much more complex than just our, our thoughts, you know, and thoughts can be repetitive and most negative thinkers are self-negative. People who talk negatively to themselves. It’s a cyclical, nonstop kind of bashing and breaking themselves down and blaming themselves. So, you need to be aware that oh, this is that voice that’s defeating me. Well, it’s not true. It’s not a true voice, you know, because I am so much bigger than, and so much more whole than what these thoughts would have me think, or how I choose to interpret those thoughts, basically. Right. So, do you see it that way? Or how do you deal with?

 

Rev Connie Habash 13:23

Absolutely, the first thing that I really try to help the clients and my students to see is that thoughts are not real. We tend to believe that they are, in fact, we don’t even we’re not even aware that we believe that they are, there’s just an unconscious assumption that what I think is real, and it’s true. But we know that that’s not correct. Because we could think you know, of, you know, of a rainbow colored carrot doing jumping jacks, I mean, I can have all kinds of weird thoughts, and none of them are really true. So why do we, why are there certain thoughts that we believe are absolutely true hook, line, and sinker. And it’s really a matter of habit, right? If I was, you know, like, if this was a book, this is my planner, but you know, this is a book and I was reading it constantly, every day, every night, whatever book that might be, right, if someone’s reading a horror book, or horror story, which I don’t touch with a 10 foot pole. Then they’re going to be filled with all of that kind of imagery and persuade perceiving, and those emotions, and that’s what we’re doing is we’re kind of reinvesting and you know, a lot of people say it’s like an old program, right? We’re running it over and over again, and then perceiving the world through that experience, but I could just take the book and put it down and stop reading it. And after a while, that’s going to fade out of my experience, especially if I’m focusing on something else. And what I talked about in the book, The first foundation is learning to focus on presence on what’s, what is real here right now. So, when we come into the present moment with our senses, okay, what’s real here is like I have, you know, the camera up here that I’m looking at and you on the screen, I mean, that’s what I’m seeing. I’m sitting in a chair, I’m wearing this top, you know, these things I can touch I can see, I can hear and reorienting to this as this is what’s real right here right now. Not what’s going on, you know, we point to our head in the Western culture, but wherever the mind is, it isn’t necessarily located in the brain. This is what’s real…right here, right now, instead of the mind ruminating over something in the past, or projecting into the future, which a lot of people are doing right now. We’re projecting all kinds of fearful things into the future. Right here right now. This is where our calm lies. This is where our awakening lies. Is we’re only living in the present moment ever. And our power and our power, absolutely. Our power to change our power to transform our power to choose, right here.

 

Manon Bolliger 16:10

Yeah, no, I think that you, you say that perfectly. I totally agree. And that’s the thing, if you if you engage the thoughts and anxiety is more about the future, right? Then the past has more grabbed him. And what if I had and none of that kind of thing? Right? That’s not necessarily. I guess it could cause anxiety. But I personally see anxiety as a future forecast. That isn’t accurate, because we know that we delete, we change, we distort, we do all kinds of things with her or thoughts, right? That’s why our perception is so, so limited. Yeah. So, the present is really where it’s happening.

 

Rev Connie Habash 17:00

Yes, the present is where life is happening, our life is always happening in the present. And we don’t usually realize that because we usually aren’t present. We’re walking around thinking about something else. Where anxiety can come from the past, as if we’re going back over and over again, to a time that causes anxiety. Right? We’re watching TV, or we, you know, we just find that but, you know, we’re doing so much of not being here, that it’s it actually, it can be very difficult for people to learn to be here. Unfamiliar, it might appear boring. It’s, it’s boring, because we aren’t actually really here, when we’re really here and really present. The richness and a lightness of life as it is starts to unfold for us. And I especially like to take people out into nature. It’s a big part of how I work with people as eco therapists. That when we’re really fully present with nature, and we’re day engaging all of our senses, yes, the a lightness, and the beauty and the magic of this present moment on this planet starts to unfold for people and there’s a renewal and an increase of energy and a sense of joy and a sense of calm that can come from all of that.

 

Manon Bolliger 18:20

Yeah, I think it’s very important to…it’s also what you what you’re surrounding yourself with, if you do that, you are bringing a different experience, literally to you that is in the present moment. But that is a chosen, calming experience and, you know, very much more connected. So how do you see panic attacks, like I, you know, I was reading a little bit about it, understanding that it’s also a body take over that, you know, the mind then starts to notice that the body is experiencing all these symptoms. And that adds to the whole cycle of anxiety. How are you either seeing it or helping people get out of the so called panic attack or anxiety attack?

 

Rev Connie Habash 19:16

Yeah, my experience with working with that is it always starts with thoughts where you’re usually not aware of them. And when it leads to a panic attack is when the thoughts have really taken off, like a runaway train, you know, they’ve just kind of gone off, out of control and unconsciously usually.

 

Commercial Break 19:44

Hi, I’m Dr. Manon Bolliger and I wanted to take a moment to thank you for watching these podcasts. If you haven’t subscribed, please do. Also, feel free to leave comments and like it. This way more people get to find out about This work and about other choices for health. So, I think it’s really important that, that we all share this information, I have a free gift to you. It’s a seven sequence email that has tips for every day, and a little insight about how to live your life when it comes to health. And it’s very much built on how I managed to overcome stage four cancer and what it took. So, I would love you to have this. And thank you once again, for listening to these podcasts.

 

Rev Connie Habash 20:47

To the point where it starts, then a response in the body of the sympathetic nervous system that it’s like once, once the momentum is going, it’s going to then probably build until it’s reached its conclusion. Right? So, and then. So that starts the heart racing that starts the tendency to keep inhaling, inhaling and not exhaling, I found that that is quite common with panic attacks that like, I keep inhaling and I can’t get enough air, because you’re not exhaling. So, there’s no possible way to get any more air. If so, that’s one of the ways like physically I work with people with anxiety attacks be something beyond the thought is like, okay, let’s work on exhalation, lengthening the exhalation coming into that, because that’s going to give you the capacity to inhale more. But, so it’s really important for the clients I have that have panic attacks to be working with, what are the thoughts that they’re indulging in, or they’re, they’re repeating, or they’re investing in, like, I think you use the word investment, you know, it reminds me of a quote from Reverend Michael Bernard Beckwith, who I love that what you appreciate appreciates. So, what you invest in grows, right, if you’re investing in certain thoughts, they are going to grow like interest. And they’re going to multiply and accumulate. So, it’s disrupting that pattern. So, it’s combination of having then practices to calm them when the panic attack is happening. But to try and head it off, before it happens, like, oh, I’m going into that kind of train of thought, right, and I need to start installing a new program a new, a new way of thinking and start making that more of a habit. And that can that takes a while, you know, it’s, it’s going to take a little while to shift that. And bringing them back into the present moment is also part of, of how I do that and into their body. Yeah, so that’s another that’s a second principle is becoming embodied. Because usually, when a panic attack is happening, we’ve left the body. And like you said, you know, if you start feeling the panic attack coming on, then you start to have anxiety about the fact that the panic attacks coming on, and that ramps up the sympathetic nervous system even more. And a lot of times, people sort of go out of the body, meaning that they they’re way up in their head, now, they’re not present, they’re not in here. And then the body can become kind of panic itself about the fact that you’re not really here. Because if you’re not here, then that means you’re not really paying attention to what’s actually going on and making sure that we’re safe in the physical world. So, all of these things sort of amplify each other. Right? So, it’s all starting with coming back to the thought processes in my experience and helping to put new ways of thinking on to different situations, staying in the present, staying in the body, and I have a whole process of things that we do like grounding and centering and all that which people have probably heard of some of them. And there’s something else I was gonna say but…oh, and then the breathwork techniques and all of that.

 

Manon Bolliger 24:07

Yeah, because I find people who go into their heads there. They think that if they could only solve the thought, and it’s like, you’re not gonna solve it with the same mind that allowed it to go absolutely right down that path. So it’s okay No, no, no, we need to shift and I do a lot of bodywork so in you know, in my practice, so it’s like bringing people back to their bodies and the breath and putting them into parasympathetic and then seeing you know, I see all these thoughts and I just see them okay, identify them as Oh, here they are on their, what’s that animal that goes in circles?

 

Rev Connie Habash 24:47

A dog following its own tail kind of.

 

Manon Bolliger 24:49

Yeah, exactly. That are those, those little ones that are running around in cages, you know, they go

 

Rev Connie Habash 24:54

Oh, like hamsters

 

Manon Bolliger 24:56

Hamster wheels. Well, those are the thoughts. Don’t even solve them. put them aside, get back to your body. And when you’re centered, you know, I don’t know, for me, it’s like, there may be some figuring things out, like, there are things to solve. And that’s what the, you know, thoughts can do, they can lead, you know, put it a list, do it there. But I say, once you’ve done the list, and you’ve gone as far as the, the mind that we can do it, the intellect can figure it out. There’s things you can’t go further, you just have to let them find it. So, the moment you notice that you’re in that thing is like, okay, I’ve done that. And thank you very much for sharing with me, but we’re not going to go that road, because at this moment, we’re not receiving more insight. Right? You know, and I feel like, that’s when you’re in the present, you actually receive insight. Rather than follow the train of thoughts.

 

Rev Connie Habash 25:58

I agree, I think insight to tend to rise spontaneously when effective, and we’re open and we’re not expecting. But that’s, that brings up for me, you know, with everything going on in the world right now. Like you’re saying, you know, there’s things to be solved, but there’s only so many things that we can select this, we really can’t, at least I can’t personally solve the fires that are happening right now. You know, there are things that I can do, whether that might be, you know, helping out firefighter organizations, or prayers and visualization or whatever. But ultimately, I can’t figure it out. I cannot, there’s, there’s not something or the pandemic, I can’t, there’s not a place where I can get it all figured out and solved. So, embracing the not knowing, actually is very calming for me, like, I don’t know. And that’s okay, to let there be not knowing. Because it was when I cling to you, I need to know, that’s going to drive my anxiety because there’s no possible way that I can know all of that or figure it out. And to me, that’s that comes to like I have seven keys in the book. The last one is surrender is really offering it over to something much greater than myself. And through surrender, we can experience serenity within because I can’t figure out all the problems of the world. I can’t shoulder all of that. I can’t take on all the emotions of everybody out there all the animals or plants or whatever it is. So, if I when I surrender that to something much bigger than me, then I can have that sense of calm and peace here in the present moment. And then when I figure out the question that you’re saying is okay, what is to be solved or can be solved in my life right now? Or what action can I take the valuable empowering action in the book can I do right now? And I let that be enough? Because that’s what I can do. I can’t figure it all out. I can’t fix it all. Yeah, that’s only gonna cause me distress if I try to.

 

Manon Bolliger 28:13

Yeah, no, I, I agree with you again. No, I do you think it’s through surrender in that sense and trust, right. And, and I think that often, with anxiety, there’s no trust. Because there’s the belief that you’re actually in control of everything, and you’re not.

 

Rev Connie Habash 28:36

That’s true. And you know, trust is big. It’s, I talk in the book a little bit about, like, you know, weightlifting, that building trust and is, is like learning to lift weights, like, you’re not going to make a leap to just completely trusting the universe right away, if you don’t have a foundation, and that kind of inner faith and inner spiritual connection to that I call the divine, you know, whether it’s God or whatever you call that, right. So, you start with recognizing that there are actually things that all of us trust in every day without even thinking about it. We trust that if I turn the faucet, the water will come on, we trust that the seasons are going to change, we trust that the sun is going to rise, even if it’s behind clouds. There’s a lot of things that we do inherently trust in that happen, right that if I turn on a switch, the lights going to come on. So, using that as a foundation to build like, okay, I trust in that. And then looking at what else do I trust in and what’s a little bit of a reach? Can I trust that my friend will return my phone call in a reasonable amount of time, I can probably trust that all right, and then we look at lifting heavier weights like, so you know, trusting that enough income flows in if I take this out. In this action, so it’s building that up, and then eventually seeing for me how spirit always supports me in my life, the more I practice that trust, the more I put faith in something bigger than me. Because the planet knows how to run itself without me interfering the seasons know how to change the trees know what to do with the solar system knows how to rotate and spin and all of that. So, I think I can trust us something bigger to have to care for my life and guide my life, the more I have faith in it.

 

Manon Bolliger 30:40

Mm hmm. Yeah. And I actually love how you’ve explained that. Because I often, you know, with my patients had these discussions where they said, well, is there do you? Are you religious, you know, or do you belong to a faith? And it’s like, my answer is no, because I don’t I mean, I was raised a certain way. But, but it’s, and I call it spirit. It’s divine, I use that word, because it feels like, we are part of something bigger. And it’s like, why would we exclude ourselves from the incredible organization of all things here on Earth, even if like, right, the water flowing the, all of that, and if we see ourselves as part of all that, and you know, I’ve had a few close calls to, to death, that could be and didn’t work out that way. But the thing is that, in the most, the most scary time, I felt very relaxed, it’s not quite the right word. It’s almost like, surrendered to that it’s not in my hands anymore. But the very next step is, it’s like, I can do what I can only just be utterly present and do the next step. But what’s going to happen will be what happens and that and that’s the perfect thing to help. And it was like, it was at a state of like, non-almost not able to judge anymore. That, that Yeah, I should be, or I shouldn’t be here. There was actually no attachment left. It was very, very powerful experience. Yeah. And yeah, and I guess the thing, if you don’t have an experience like that, how do you go into trusting and I think that’s why I love the way you explain nature, because everyone can see that, you know, and then we kind of create a universe where we’re separate. And we’re not.

 

Rev Connie Habash 33:00

Absolutely, and I think that’s a big part of what’s causing suffering on the planet is how we have disconnected ourselves and separate ourselves, from the very land, the very planet that we live on, that we are dependent on for all of our life. And, and talking more about that sense of trusting something bigger, when we go out into nature, it’s beautiful.

 

Rev Connie Habash 33:27

And that when we look at it, it’s not perfect, right? It’s part of its beauty is it’s not perfect, like, it’s, it’s dirty, it’s messy, you know, like, there’s debris everywhere, right? I mean, that’s what happens, you know, branches fall, and leaves fall, and there’s death all around you. And that, that that is also part of life, like that’s what’s giving life to the forest is actually the cycle of things dying, and then giving resources and nurturance for the new life to grow. And that’s happening in our lives all the time. I mean, literally, you know, the cells are dying, and the new cells are growing, right? parts of ourselves also are ready to lead release, like release from the tree. And when, when we embrace that process, there’s this beautiful flow of life and that increase of trust, seeing it happen in nature, feeling in ourselves, and you seem like you want to say something?

 

Manon Bolliger 34:23

Oh, no, I’m listening. I’m listening to you know, I’m very excited.

 

Rev Connie Habash 34:27

Yeah, it’s so it’s to me, there’s just, I take people out in the nature and there’s always lessons and gifts. It’s as if the birds and the trees and the ants, they all know what we need. In the end, they bring it to us and that experience when we go out there and we meet, immerse deeply into connecting in nature, there’s always messages in its profound. So that’s, that’s one of the ways that I help people build that sense of trust in something greater

 

Manon Bolliger 34:56

And it’s so true. Because when we’re open to it our perception changes different things into our perceptions and what people might call as like separate incidences, to those who see it differently see it, like divine timing, or perfect timing in the sense that there’s no coincidence. And so, it’s funny how, you know, our vocabulary changes with our perception, depending on how much we are allowing ourselves to experience life. Yes, absolutely. Anyway. Well, Connie, it was really wonderful having you here. Is there any last statement you’d like to leave? with everyone?

 

Rev Connie Habash 35:46

Well, it’s been a delight, Dr. M. And I want to remind people that you have what you need within you that that inner connection to something greater and the divine, and your own inner wisdom and the divine intelligence and every cell of your body, all of that and your own emotions of cells. All of that is ready to and is right in this moment, giving you gifts and giving you guidance and giving an insight if we can learn the language of how to listen to it and how to trust in that inner knowing. So yes, please know that that is within you already. It’s already there. And it’s just a matter of how to access it and know how to listen. It’s been a delight on your on your podcast. Thank you so much, Dr. M.

 

Dr M (Manon Bolliger), ND

Thank you for joining us. For more information, go to DrManonBolliger.com.