medicine goes. And nothing bad against that. It just wasn’t for me. And it definitely has its place. So I started taking classes and every class that I took that I enjoyed, and I got something from I really threw myself into it to learn. And I started with cranial sacral therapy, and that led into Somato emotional release. I took Reiki I took Angel speak, I just took anything that just kind of sounded right or sounded interesting. And I love learning things. I wish I would have done that younger but never too late, right? So I’m really, I’m like a sponge when it comes to this. And so eventually, I got a phone call from somebody who said, Hey, these, I saw your credentials. I’m a physical therapist, I think that we’d be a good fit. And so that’s when I started, you know, helping people would come to me with chronic conditions that were they were not getting satisfaction from. And that physical work kind of expanded into me looking into the energetic and the etheric field as to stop the pain before it would even reach the body. And that’s when I really found that people started to truly improve. Well, I started to truly improve. I shared it with my clients. And they did too. So it’s been a long process. But it’s been a very exciting one.

 

Manon Bolliger  04:09

So just to make sure I’ve understood what you’re saying, to get to people before the pain gets into their body or like as in their so they’re in an emotional state, or could you expand on that a little bit?

 

Sally DiCesare  04:28

Yes. Very great question. So when, um, think about a time when you were in a hurry. Maybe you were driving somewhere. You’re kind of in a little bit of a rush. So you’ve got a little bit of an edge to how you’re feeling and then you notice all but you’re going to make it okay and then you start noticing all the traffic lights up ahead. And what happens to your body when you think oh my gosh, I’m not I’m gonna make it on time to that appointment. It’s a really important appointment. And just check in with your body for a second, does it get tense anywhere. And then imagine that somebody, you know, you see your exit, so you cut across, and then you see people yelling at you, and you’re making hand gestures and nasty faces. And then it’s like, oh, but they don’t know what, you know, I’m really sorry, that’s not like me. And that’s even more of the emotion than we take on the energy of the people that are throwing it at us, right. And so we’re lugging this around all the time and as practitioners or as in the health profession, we’re dealing with people all the time, who are coming to us in pain, or they’re anxious, and they’re kind of all balled up. And it’s like when you walk into a room, and you could tell there was an argument there, right, and you can almost feel the tension in the room. And that’s what these people bring to us. And so we’re in this soup of energy. And if we’re not prepared, it’s going to seep into us. So some of the issues that many people have or not, don’t even really start with their issues, their beliefs they picked up or something that they’ve picked up from somebody else.

 

Manon Bolliger  06:33

But so if we go back, let’s say to what you’re doing as a what was it as a dental hygienist? 

 

Sally DiCesare  06:44

Dental nurse maybe? 

 

Manon Bolliger  06:45

Yeah, okay, dental nurse, do you…so you had back pain. One could say, oh, it’s positional. I mean, because, you know, I have sat on those chairs and seen the way the work arounds on the, you know, the awkwardness of the position. But, so what would you say was the chicken or the egg in your case? Like how…yeah, and then what did you literally do when you realized, Oh, I’ve got back pain, I gotta deal with us.

 

Sally DiCesare  07:20

Well, I was starting to lose tactile sensitivity. And so I knew I had to do something. And I was the primary breadwinner of the family. So it was on me. And so I started searching, it was a pain in my back, it was definitely attracting my attention. So I looked around for what would be the, you know, what’s…a chiropractor came across. So I came to this chiropractor, and it was marvelous. And it worked. But I had to go back, and back and back and back. And I was adjusting my posture, I was being ergonomically correct while I was sitting. And it wasn’t staying. And that’s when I started going, you know, a friend came and said, Oh, hey, craniosacral therapy, you’re a hygienist, you can take it, you’ve got a license. And so you can take it and then instead of going to a cranial sacral therapist, you can get treatment in the class. And then you’ll have the knowledge. Oh, that sounds like a good you know, I can I can I can buy into that. And so that was my path, it was like, So first, I started with the physical pain of breaking up the knots that were my back. And then I moved into something more with the fascial release, or the restructuring, so I saw it as like, chiropractic will click things loose, you know, straighten you up. But then if everything else that the muscles are pulling the wrong way, right, it’s gonna slip it right back. So I saw those as a very complementary support tool for me. So that was the physical part. And then as the my training went on, I got into this Somato emotional release classes and the healing from the core classes, right. And that’s when I started noticing that the pain was actually telling me stories. And, you know, some people here some people know some, you know, you just sense things. But I became very aware that I was hearing what my body was telling me. 

 

Manon Bolliger  09:34

Hmm, interesting. I’ve got to say something. It’s, you know, well, you probably know that I run a college called Bowen College. But it’s just so perfectly fitting to what you’re saying. And it’s really it’s interesting, because that is the journey right from structural to understanding that fascia is what holds Humpty Dumpty together in many ways, right? And, and the muscles, but also fascia has the memory, which holds this the unconscious, and hence all the stories that we hold, which also makes the memory come back. So in teaching at Bowen College, we tie all that together because like you I went to a chiropractor for I think seven years, it helped, but it didn’t last, you know. And then, and I had scoliosis and it was painful, you know, so I felt like I needed to continue. But, it was actually through Bowen, that it healed. Just a couple of sessions. That was it. Like, the body is so ready to heal, you know, but it’s interesting that that’s the journey you had, right. It’s just so parallel to what I’m clearly passionate about. So I just had to share.

 

Sally DiCesare  11:01

Know, that’s great. And we both enhance the body’s ability, that innate ability, like you said, if you give it what it needs, it’s just thirsty to be supported in a way it understands. And I think that’s why there are so many different modalities out there. And you do have to try a few. 

 

Manon Bolliger  11:21

Yeah, absolutely. 

 

Sally DiCesare  11:23

Because we’re all different, right? We all

 

Manon Bolliger  11:25

And I think, too, you know, the way he said, instead of going to see one, I’ll learn that, you know, but so it’s very common, right? And the thing is, you know, many of us are learners who are in this field, right? Because otherwise we would do surgery or remove the bone that’s in the way, even though it has nothing to do with it. Whatever, or put cement in the spine to strengthen it, or some, some such, there’s many studies. But I think, you know, it’s like, you’re, you’re curious about how the body heals, right. So then by learning it as you heal, you know, it’s a, it’s a very exciting and very deep way of learning, right, it’s like, you know, what you learned doing your path, right. It’s huge, because you you come out knowing in a on a deep level, not just theoretically, but you’ve done the whole work, right. It’s part of your whole journey, right? That’s very exciting.

 

Sally DiCesare  12:37

And I believe, if I would have come across the Bowen work it would have been in my repertoire also. 

 

Manon Bolliger  12:43

Oh probably. Yeah. 

 

Sally DiCesare  12:45

Yes, it just never came in my path. Right. Right.

 

Manon Bolliger  12:49

Yeah, it’s like you said, the teacher shows up. So you know, the teacher showed up.

 

Sally DiCesare  12:55

And the right ones did. And I really enjoyed, you know, just guiding people to realize that it’s those fundamental restrictions that they unconsciously put on themselves. And that’s what’s holding them back. And how can…working the way we work, how can they hear, understand and move forward? With the way they’re supposed to be?

 

Manon Bolliger  13:24

So, at this point in how long have you practiced at this?

 

Sally DiCesare  13:29

Over 25 years

 

Manon Bolliger  13:31

25 years. Okay, that’s enough time to make a statement on this. What do you believe? Or what combination of things do you believe about pain?

 

Sally DiCesare  13:49

Ah, so I have learned to believe and to see that it has a purpose. Our bodies have told us time and again, our situations, everything I see is a reflection of me. So if I’m starting to see a lot of tension in the world around me, I need to look at myself, and we are seeing tension in the world. I need to look at myself and find out where that is starting with me. And then I can help support myself and then that’s a ripple to those around me. So that was a little I jumped ahead. And I believe pain is a really good teacher. And I believe too many times we try to close it off or tamp it down when all it really wants to be is like a two year old child. It just wants to be heard. It’s having a tantrum because you haven’t listened or I didn’t listen, for the first you know, while I was working for the first 10 years And so finally, it was like, You’re gonna listen, or else. And so I started listening, and it opened a whole new world, in our landscape.

 

Manon Bolliger  15:15

So do you think now, looking back, so you had…your life had a certain path, right? You saw a chiropractor, then you took cranial sacral. And then you did some somatic healing. So that was the path or trajectory that you were presented. But now looking back, could you have done it in a reverse order? 

 

Commercial Break  15:40

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Manon Bolliger  16:49

Could you have done it or just do somatic work first or, like, you know, I know you can’t undo what you know, your path is your path. Right? But how much of it of the pain after 10 years do you really feel? I mean, it’s in the body, but how much of it needs to be touched through the body to be moved.

 

Sally DiCesare  17:24

By that time it had to be however, I hear what you’re saying. Yes, I believe that if I would have said…if I would have spoken up more for myself, if I would have said no to certain opportunities that came my way. And then just been open to whatever happened. I was not in that place at all. I as growing up, I wasn’t given the freedom to make my own decisions. So the fact I was not making my own decisions, I was making the decisions that my parents would have made for me. And you know, and so that is my biggest thrill is to see people actually connecting with their own inner wisdom. And they go, Wow. And I wouldn’t have had it any other way is so huge and healing, because I wouldn’t be where I am. Like you said, you can’t be, but I can see back on looking back. Yes, I could have taken a totally different trajectory. I was so much in my head. And my parents were very much in my head. Yeah, I don’t think I could have done it.

 

Manon Bolliger  18:35

Because I mean, I you know, I’ve been in practice 30 years. So and I’m no longer in practice now. Just the the teaching. And yeah, it’s it’s interesting. I, because of the circumstances during the COVID, where you couldn’t touch and you couldn’t, you know, see each other and you couldn’t do a bunch of crazy things. We had to do a lot of online, you know, work. And so, which I was very mixed about because Bowen as well, it’s a physical therapy, you get your hands on people. And like you said, if they’re far gone enough, I still have the absolute bias that, you know, the hands will know. And it’s just feels like that’s how you help. And I think that we can’t underestimate the huge impact that touch actually has. So it’s not to go against that but I was surprised in my journey of how people really wanted to heal. And that ringing consciousness to what they were going through since that’s all that we could do on the online line. There were real turnarounds and real changes in pain. You know, and I, yeah, I did not have that experience because you know, when you have something you do that works that you love, it becomes what you do, you know. And so again, life added I had to learn yet, but there was there was more, right. There’s certainly something else, you know, I probably have noticed, but I find it…I find it, you know, brilliant how many doors to healing are actually opened for us if we start paying attention. Right.

 

Sally DiCesare  20:43

Right. Right. And, and it is amazing when you’re really present with your body, how easy it is to heal. And to hear clearly. Your brain, your head, your mind, your soul, talking to you and saying, this is the right way to go. You just notice another thing is not only do we feel pain in our body, but we feel joy. Right? So follow that right? If you feel comfortable and peaceful, that may be something to look at a little more carefully and go okay, so why do I feel this way? It feels great. But why? What am I thinking? And what’s happening around me? Yeah. Interesting, though, that when I say the joy, I’ve run across this a couple times, and not very often. But intense joy can also be an emotion that gets stuck in our bodies. And it’s, it’s, it’s very fascinating. It’s not like it needs to be, you know, released well it does, it needs to be loosened up. So it can be shared back out. That’s how it showed up. But it’s not like it’s pain or anything. And maybe a little bit of, um, like congestion feeling. But, yeah, I thought that was really fascinating to say, okay, just strong emotion. Strong emotion.

 

Manon Bolliger  22:19

Makes when you say that, it makes me think I have a visual for…and I don’t even like champagne. But I see joy as, as the bubbles that are celebratory. So they’re always, they’re always coming out and they need air. Right. And I think a lot of our emotions would be better shared. Like, consciously. I mean, as you you know, I don’t mean go on a rampage of anger and hate. Not even to the right person. You know, hold things about others and blah blah blah or the wrong people get it. But I think, you know, being able to be free to express I think is really important. And I think too, when you know, even in educating your kids on that, you know, there’s no bad emotion, they’re just going through an emotion and just let that be and notice that you know, like, in healing anyways, it doesn’t take that long to fully release an emotion. Right? It’s, I mean, whatever people have different timings. For me, it’s about 90 seconds is what I’ve noticed for people who are just, like, just live it, experience it, it’s okay. It’s like, and then it’s done. It’s done this journey. It doesn’t need to be figured out further it doesn’t need it just is what it is. But amazing how much havoc it does. If you’re holding it in.

 

Sally DiCesare  23:56

If you’re holding it in That’s right. And it’s it’s the tag that we put on what that emotion means because emotions on their own right are like you said they’re just an emotion. But oh, I shouldn’t be angry. That’s not nice to be angry. I shouldn’t raise my voice. I shouldn’t speak up for myself because I might hurt somebody’s feelings. Shouldn’t. No, I don’t like that word.

 

Manon Bolliger  24:25

But I mean, those are all tips, you know, to help people in pain is how many times do you say self negating things. Sometimes you see should have. Like, if you look at your own dialogue or connection to others, and then especially to yourself, I think a lot of what needs healing is right there before it manifests into a pure physical form, you know, right. 

 

Sally DiCesare  24:57

So even with what what You were saying I’m kind of backtracking, a little. COVID lock downs, everything. It was a really traumatic, horrible situation for a lot of people. And I’m not saying that that is not something I don’t want to go through that again. However, the benefit is that we got to rest. The benefit is that we learn new skills. I like 90% online now, virtual to you know, because we can we learn Oh, do this. Yeah. Otherwise, it might not have happened. So, and therefore, we get to reach more people. So, yeah, I mean, there’s the silver lining thing comes to mind. Yeah, there’s a silver lining to everything.

 

Manon Bolliger  25:55

Well, and I think that’s, it’s also an attitude, right? Not everyone would say it that way. Right. But, but a person who’s done healing, typically, and has gone through the process, you know, what my counselor taught me, or what my this taught me? It’s like, you know, once you can get there, your…yeah when you can see what, what, how pain in the large term, physical and emotional pain can be for your benefit. Yeah, then…

 

Sally DiCesare  26:34

Just be curious. 

 

Manon Bolliger  26:36

Yeah, exactly. Curious.

 

Sally DiCesare  26:37

You’re not trying to make anything happen. You’re just gonna go, wow, what if I saw it? From like, an eagle or, you know, a bird looking down on my life? How would a bird interpret my life, or this pain in my body, or this situation I’m going through. And if you can step back, then you can see things much more clearly. And again, I’m not saying things, horrible things don’t happen to people. And sometimes it just doesn’t seem fair. And if we can look with neutrality, we can take some of that pain, some of that angst out of the situation. What could I do differently? How could I live differently? What could I have learned? If I could learn something from this? Our symphonies aren’t done.

 

Manon Bolliger  27:36

Yep, exactly. So but what is almost done is our time together. So I’d really like wow, I know, that was so fast. The four steps you have to get over what did you call it over over trauma, or?

 

Sally DiCesare  27:54

Well, I’m looking at the pain of relationships, and that can be the relationship with yourself, it can be relationship with others, it can be a relationship with your job. So when I say relationship, I’m not only thinking physical with another person. So I do have an offer. It’s a freebie. It’s like, a series of five emails that you’ll get. And it’s at Bitly bi T dot L, Y, forward slash, four, not the word for four step formula, all one word, fourstepformula.

 

Manon Bolliger  28:34

Okay. And that, and that’s four steps to learning more about how to deal with your relationships to others. Okay.

 

Sally DiCesare  28:46

And it’s going to give you four steps. And it’s going to give you some background on how, what I was talking about how how we feel actually affects the other people. And they could be halfway across the world, but our energy affects other people. And so it’ll give you a lot of background on that, and it’ll give you the four steps that you’ll walk through with any situation that doesn’t feel good. I mean, it works like a charm. It’s so simple. And yet, it’s so powerful. Please, please try it. Don’t say oh, that’s never gonna work.

 

Manon Bolliger  29:23

Okay, well, thank you very much, Sally, for spending your time with us or together and yeah. I look forward to reading that.

 

Sally DiCesare  29:38

Thank you very much for this. It’s been an honor and a privilege for me to be able to share. Thank you.

 

 

Ending

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