most people don’t access.

 

Manon Bolliger 02:30

Well, access is the kind of the word that was, that was coming to mind. Right? So. So you do shamanic work?

 

Vicki Roubekas 02:39

Yes.

 

Manon Bolliger 02:40

You do mindfulness which integrates the body. In other words, it’s not just in the mind, like some people think. And then the connection to spirituality. Can you maybe sort of go like an overview of, you know, if I were a new patient, what would…how would you know what the right thing is for me? And how would you…yeah. Yeah, I was inquisitive.

 

Vicki Roubekas 03:14

Typically, people who seek me out are looking already have a spiritual aspect and are looking for somebody that does integrate spirituality, because they are what I guess we would call maybe on the fringe. They experienced and they experienced their own intuitiveness. Maybe they have psychic abilities, and they can’t really speak to anybody about it, then they also have their own traumas, and they have their emotional states of whatever’s going on for them. So as a result, they need a bridge for both of those so that they can speak to somebody who is not going to look at them go like, Okay, you need to be medicated, or you need to be, you know, analyzed by psychiatrist in thinking that there’s something externally wrong with them. Because we can have some pretty intense experiences that are not of this world. And as a result, that can be very difficult for people to not feel like they can be seen, that they can be…have a sense of like validation for their experiences. So that’s kind of like we’re it typically starts. For me, I of course, I get the range. So, some people even though they know that I’m a spiritual psychologist, they come to me for just, you know, mostly their trauma or their anxiety. And they have no but I always ask, so what is your spiritual belief system, if anything, because I like to incorporate things that they can do. And then I also potentially if they’re open to it, give them some information that they may not have thought of, about how they can incorporate these different aspects, whether it’s shamanic traditions, whether it is energy healing, to then utilize outside of therapy to support their own well-being for release of emotions, release of trauma, and just being in an in a different way with themselves.

 

Manon Bolliger 04:58

Yeah, so you touched on a different way with themselves. Because I think that’s kind of, at least the way I understand spirituality. Because I’ve had…well, I have several questions on that subject. So, first of all, how do you identify that you have a spiritual belief system? Now, of course, if you’re raised a certain way, and you have religion, right, you may or may not agree with or like the system or the program. But taking that aside, how do you identify that you have a spiritual component?

 

Vicki Roubekas 05:45

Right. What I say about spirituality, and of course, so yes, it’s separate, completely separate from religion. And to me, it’s a philosophy it is, what is it for you? What is the philosophy for you? What is your own identity, definition of what you see spirituality for you? So that person has to identify it for themselves. But what I see spirituality as being is that we’re all connected. So, we’re all connected energetically, we’re all connected to the whole, not just to each other, but to the planet to the universe. And as a result, that means that you are tapping into this consciousness that is of the whole of the collective, and also tapping into a knowing an internal knowing that is a resonant to that whether that’s your soul, your Higher Self, your internal state, your internal knowing. So, your spirituality comes from that base, that we are all connected. And that consciousness is not just within us, but it’s, it’s outside of us. It’s transpersonal. It is it, we’re interconnected to everything, and so to the cosmos. And then as a result, spirituality becomes the seeking of the connection for you of what is physically, mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually, right for you, personally. So, for some people that may be seeking out more mindfulness or Buddhist philosophies, for other people, they may be like more like for them, spirituality means a connection to a higher power, or a universe, right? For some other people, it’s connection to Goddess energy and Mother Earth. For other people, it may be the energy work, so a person has to find their calling and their own knowing to what that is, spirituality is for themselves.

 

Manon Bolliger 07:27

Yeah, no, that’s a good, I mean, good. It’s a complete answer. In that sense, I can see that it does. You have you have a hint that there’s more? Right. To start with? And I think then it’s like, how do you see that actually coming into existence? What are the beliefs you have? And the philosophies of life that support this? Or, you know, or questioning it, or whatever it is, you know, but now, because you do a lot of work with trauma people, have you noticed? At least I’ll speak for myself, and I’ll ask you, I’ve noticed that there’s a very big link in, in trauma to spirituality. In other words, one of the insights, you know, when you’re able to say that it happened for me, not to me, which is not easy to do, like, so I don’t want to diminish anyone who’s not that…it’s not a stage, but who doesn’t see it that way, that’s fine. But when you do, then, I feel like this whole spiritual aspect kicks in. Yes.

 

Vicki Roubekas 08:49

I agree with that. I, I have witnessed it specifically in myself. And I see it in my clients as well. There is always a, because there’s a seeking of hope. There’s a seeking of answers. There’s a seeking of understanding, like, Why did I experience this? Why did this happen to me? Why did I have to suffer? When you’re in it, you don’t see it, and you’re not supposed to do when you’re in it, that’s it, you’re in trauma, and you can’t distinguish yourself outside of it. And so, it’s very difficult for people who have experienced trauma initially when they come to see me, because they are stuck in the experience with all of the, you know, the symptoms that come with that, and having to see themselves in their identity as being like, not who they thought they were. And then of course, there’s blame, and there’s guilt and shaming self because there’s a belief that I was responsible for this thing happening to me when that’s not the case. It takes it can take many years. So, spirituality starts because I think people are seeking out answers to heal their pain and their suffering, then it evolves from there. And I think spirituality grows and just like, just like we do as humans, we’re constantly growing. We’re not meant to be stagnant. We’re supposed to seek out and question and how the answer is, I think that’s, that’s what our brains have the ability to do. And as a result, then you can kind of like, accumulate whole bunch of information and knowledge, spirituality wise into your life and what that means specifically for you. But I always say that trauma is a catalyst for people to make change. And then when they look back on their life, when they are at that end, which is like many, many years later for a lot of people, they go like, Oh, I see now. I see why that was, I’m not that thing, that that trauma that was. I’m not the trauma it was something that happened to me. But it was a learning for me to understand who I am and who I become as a person. And often, not everybody, but many people will then go into some form of service as a result of their trauma.

 

Manon Bolliger 10:52

Yeah, and I certainly identify with that. And I’ve seen it, as well, many times. The other part that I find interesting, because again, there’s such a parallel you have in your…in how you work with people, you also go through a somatic level. And, I’ve had such an issue, you know, with dealing in general with, you know, people who are traumatized, who then say, oh, I want to see a psychologist, or I want to see a psychiatrist, I’m like, you know, because they’re the right people for this. And it’s like, actually, if we can do somatic work, we’re gonna get there way faster, than if we just spend our time in our heads. You know, whether it’s rehashing the story or rewriting the story, I’m not saying there isn’t a bit of that, you know, you need to be heard, you need to be seen, you need to express, you know, at least release, you know, but there’s that, but I find that the work goes faster and more profoundly when you connect to your actual body.

 

Vicki Roubekas 12:13

Absolutely. Because that’s where the trauma is stored.

 

Manon Bolliger 12:16

Yes

 

Vicki Roubekas 12:17

As a result, we store the energy of everything that we’ve experienced in our physical body, we have, we hold on to it, if we haven’t processed it out fully, then we store it in our body. So as a result, that’s why we experienced certain symptoms in relationship to body and of course, a disconnect to the body, which is the biggest thing. So as a result, people stop listening, stop paying attention, stop having an awareness, have limiting beliefs of self in regards to their body. Have negative self-talk about their body, because they’ve had experienced a trauma that may feel like it’s a betrayal that their body betrayed them in some way. And then, so as a result, people need to get access to that. And it’s not easy. Because, again, you’re bringing up and you’re unlocking, you could do that with yoga, like some people are like, I don’t know why I’m in a yoga pose and I’m, I’m bawling my eyes out because you’ve tapped into something that stored in that part, and it’s now…it’s released. And that’s the piece, you can connect, reconnect to your body and feel into the sensations. It truly is a different way of being. And again, you’re connecting so deeply to a part of yourself, you can have talk therapy for many, many years in my perspective, and not access the deep stuff, not your subconscious brain that is really going to tell you and give you some answers and clarity about things that you never thought of before. And that’s what I love about that kind of work, you’re getting out of your left analytical brain or you’re getting into your right part of your brain that helps you to unpack the limbic system, unpack all of that all of the experiences and memories within a body felt state.

 

Manon Bolliger 14:01

Yeah, and I think the way that I’ve been accessing it, when I had a practice, because I’m not in practice now. Is through pain, you know, people identify with pain, often, that’s the problem. Now the real problem is the trauma behind it.

 

Vicki Roubekas 14:22

Yes.

 

Manon Bolliger 14:23

And the pain may well be the manifester of the symptom. And that’s why often doing other kinds of physical work. Like whether it’s Chiro or physio, it doesn’t work. Or I mean, it works a bit, but it doesn’t really get to the root is because the cause is not the same. The cause is the harbored you know, emotional story.

 

Vicki Roubekas 14:52

Yes.

 

Manon Bolliger 14:52

That is in now in your subconscious right in your tissues

 

Vicki Roubekas 14:56

Correct.

 

Manon Bolliger 14:57

You know, so then it’s like, well, like driving cuz I tried that it didn’t work. And then. So, the therapy I do is called Bowen therapy. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it.

 

Vicki Roubekas 15:06

I have, yeah.

 

Manon Bolliger 15:07

And it’s quite incredible because it’s like a bypass because they want their pain gone. And then the body does everything it needs to do all by itself, because it’s so…we’re so well built.

 

Vicki Roubekas 15:22

Yes.

 

Manon Bolliger 15:23

And if you can hold the space and know how to deal with what may come up, it’s like, it just accelerates the process tremendously where the body literally speaks, which it always does, but you start to go, Oh, my goodness, it’s speaking to me.

 

Vicki Roubekas 15:44

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

 

Manon Bolliger 15:48

So, what forms because I know a lot of my students that are like, they want to take somatic work, and I’m thinking what else is there and I I have never done other work than this as my somatic work. Tell me a little bit about the type of work you do or works that you have seen work really well.

 

Vicki Roubekas 16:09

Right. So, for me specifically, it is what I’m doing somatic is hakomi has been one aspect of that and…

 

Commercial Break 16:16

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Vicki Roubekas 16:58

And how hakomi works is basically we meet we may have a brief discussion about, you know, what’s been happening for you, and then we tap into the body. So where are you feeling that in your body, and then eyes get closed, and then we do an exploration we just follow the organism of the body, what does the body need to do tell us move. Because often when there is trauma, we we’ve you know, typically with Fight, Flight freeze, and most people freeze, the body freezes in certain positions. And they feel stuck in that position. So, the body sometimes will just need to unwind in a sense. And with hakomi, neither can touch can be a part of that. That’s just dependent. So sometimes we need to come up to the person, if they’re experiencing something where they have, their body has done something as a means to support, but it’s actually harming them. So as example, let’s say their shoulders are up high. And I may bring that up, they go do you notice that your shoulders are up right now? No, I’ve never noticed that. And they’re like, you know, up at three years like this is a body response to trauma to whatever experience has happened to them. And that’s the body’s go to. So, in order to release that there needs to be the person needs to stop doing that for themselves. So, it would come in as a hakomi therapist and I would put my hands on the shoulders where they’re holding it and do the work for them. So that they can access deeper memories, emotions. Where is this coming from? How far back does this go? Does this feel familiar? Right, exploring it in all its ways using all senses, so that they can really tap into this. And then there’s usually a point where there is a release, usually first they’ll be like an access to a past memory. And then we do a risk re-experiencing of that memory so that they can, what they needed to happen, whether it’s somebody like I can step in and be the person speaking up on their behalf. Or maybe they need to be the person that speaks up and says something on the behalf of whatever the whatever needed to happen at that moment. Or being supported or being held and nurtured. So, it’s very important for the present therapist to really feel into it. And often child state will come up. And especially when trauma is really quite young, the person will revert to child state, and they will be in their child states. So, they need to be soothed. They need to be talked to as if they’re a child, so that they can really give voice to what they needed at that time that they didn’t get. And that there’s a release, there’s a new understanding, and there’s more ability to take more breath. Then at some point, I would release my hands from the shoulders and it’s the new now integration of how does the body feel, now that this has been what the experience that you needed that you didn’t have, now you’ve gotten, right? What is the child self-need connecting with a child self outside of therapy, being childlike in nature, all those things are talked about afterwards, but that’s typically how hakomi works.

 

Manon Bolliger 19:54

Okay, so it sounds to me. I mean, it’s very much in the moment following the person and the practitioner needs to have the skill of touch, but also the skill of me of processing or helping process or facilitating the next step.

 

Vicki Roubekas 20:15

Yes, you’re just following the body, and then you’re helping them. And sometimes you’re saying things to them, especially if there’s something that comes up for them. Like when you can start to see and understand the client, let’s say they have a limiting belief that is, like, I’m not good enough, right, and you can see it, you can see it from the things that you’ve talked about beforehand, and how they’re presenting themselves with being connected with their body. So then sometimes you will just like, you know, I’m gonna say statement to you just take a notice, notice what happens when I say the statement. And then you say, the statement and you say, you know, Manon your good enough. And then usually, tears will come if you hit the good one on the button, because they don’t believe it. And then you go from there. And that helps to again, awaken and then open up a new understanding and a release of that limiting belief that’s held them back where it comes from, and to be again. Then you give them the permission to recognize that they are that, that they can accept that in themselves, because often they don’t. Where the stuckness stays. Yeah. Hmm. So okay, let me switch. But that’s very interesting. Thank you for sharing that. And you work with in shamanism, what the approach you take? What’s the difference? How did you get into it? What is that? Where does that situate itself? So, when I do shamanic work, it’s typically in conjunction with Reiki. So, energy work, I kind of combined the two. And I do that usually on table work. When I talk about shamanic practices within a psychological perspective. Sometimes I’m doing Reiki energy, if I’m doing EMDR, while the person is holding and doing their thing, and they’re they want that also provide energy work, because energy work is a facilitation. Again, it’s another added layer of the release from your auric field from all of the energy centers, again, of the trauma that you carried, to help that to just completely clear and to support that with shamanic practices, it is more to mine is Peruvian shamanism. That’s what I’m trained in. And so, it’s very earth based. It’s all about connecting to Mother Earth. Pachamama. And what you do is you are utilizing nature to not only in grounding, but to release your emotions, trauma you use, you can utilize. So, for me, if I was facilitating a session, I would be…and I incorporate a little bit indigenous too, because I’m indigenous background. So, then I would be like, maybe using drumming, definitely rattling on the person using crystals to remove stuck energy from that person, opening up energy centers to help whatever needs to clear. So, it’s a little bit, it’s a little bit more body oriented in that sense, where you are physically going into the body, and then you do a lot of journeying, which is you’re then connecting to, you know, a new higher level different knowing of what is happening for this person to give them information in a symbolic form. So, if I see a picture of a horse, I’m like, I see a picture of a horse it’s up to the person to decide what does that mean for me? In session, if I’m talking about it, I will tell them techniques. So, I give them like homework that’s based on shamanic traditions like you can utilize. When you’re releasing, like, as an example, you know, most therapists will say, like, journaling is fantastic. So, I go add a little bit more to that. So, you can utilize, you need to release the emotion from your physical body. So as a result, you can use a stick, you can use a leaf, you can use a stone from the earth, and you can physically blow in the pain and the suffering while you’re journaling. And while you’re journaling. And while you’re talking about it, you can speak it out to the universe into Mother Earth, to transmute the energy of that experience and feel into the emotions and really truly feel them and below them into the whatever object it is from your gut like yours looks like. And you’re just breathing as much out as you need to. And then you can physically use the object and that’s what’s usually better with a stone. Or you can rub it. Where do I feel it on my body? And you’re just you’re unwinding it and you’re releasing it and you’re letting it go. And then you put it on the earth, and you basically let it sit and you can come back to it. You can choose to do I have more to release what I’m going to release today? So that every day you could pick up that stone for as long as you need to. And there may be a new thing. Oh, now I’m angry at my mother for Doing this don’t even speak the words, just, you know, let it out physically. So, it can be an extremely powerful tool.

 

Manon Bolliger 25:10

So, when you so when you have a new person that is figuring out where to start with all the different tools and what guides you just, you know, in your treatment plan in that sense?

 

Vicki Roubekas 25:30

My intuition?

 

Manon Bolliger 25:31

Your intuition.

 

Vicki Roubekas 25:31

Yep, yep. And I see where certain things would make sense of what needs to transpire. And some things are a little bit too out there for some people, so they would never be brought up. Right. Some people that are more open are like, yeah, that’s good. That’s along the lines of something that I would want to try. And, and or, you know, we explore, and then we see how that utilizes. And so, when we’re doing more spiritually based therapy, like with embodied awareness, what I like about that tool is that type of modality of therapy is that you are accessing, again, your higher sense of self and your own inner intuition. So, you come up with your own plan, your own game plan, your own knowing, and messages to yourself about, you know, what this means for you, based on what we were exploring. What action steps do they need to take?

 

Manon Bolliger 26:28

Right. Yeah, it’s such a fascinating way of being able to connect with people and facilitate or bound change, right? So how do people find you what do they look up?

 

Vicki Roubekas 26:47

You know, it’s interesting, because I always I was asked, How did you find me? Spiritual therapist or spiritual spirituality in it, and they seem to, it seems to pick up on that. And that’s those are the ones that are typically drawn for me when they, most people that come to me. Those two things, number one, that they like that I tell my personal story, because there’s a big disconnect, when you have to go to a therapist, and you feel like, you don’t get to know anything about them.

 

Manon Bolliger 27:17

Right.

 

Vicki Roubekas 27:17

So I think it’s important that people feel like, Oh, she gets me she’s had similar experiences. So many people who read my about page feel connected to me, because they go like, Oh, she gets me because she’s experienced similar things. And from there, yeah, mostly, I guess people have told me that really, is just and again a lot of after so many years, right now, it’s a lot of word of mouth. So, I get a lot of clients, and then they tell people who are the same like-minded spiritual tribe, and then that’s how people come to see me.

 

Manon Bolliger 27:48

Because another aspect of the work I do is like with Bowen College anyways, the college I run, is help people get seen and so-called market, you know. And I say share your own story, because it doesn’t matter. You know, we do similar things that other people add this or this, you know, we all have our own way of relating, but if people don’t know your story, they’re not gonna connect.

 

Vicki Roubekas 28:20

Not at all

 

Manon Bolliger 28:21

You know, and you’re gonna have plenty of people that connect with you that maybe your story isn’t right for, for some people, and they’ll go, Okay, no, I’ll find somebody else that you know, right. Because we will have judgments and whatever, that’s fine. But then, you know, it’s not your perfect client anyways. Right? So.

 

Vicki Roubekas 28:38

absolutely. And I tell my clients that I may not be your perfect therapist, you may be drawn to my webpage. And the first thing I tell my clients is, like, you found me, lovely, or you were referred to me by so and so. I said, this is about you. This isn’t about me. This has to be right. You need to feel safe with me comfortable with me that the modalities that I’m using are what you expected and what you wanted so if you don’t, and you don’t see me ever again, I don’t take anything personally, this is your journey. This is not my journey.

 

Manon Bolliger 29:07

That’s so important. Yes. Well, I can’t believe our time is already up. Is there any last minute? I mean, your website will be up. I’m assuming you also see people online or not?

 

Vicki Roubekas 29:21

I do online and in person. Yep.

 

Manon Bolliger 29:23

Okay, and anything else that you want to share in the last couple minutes?

 

Vicki Roubekas 29:28

No, just for those that may be interested in kind of like the accomplishment of all that I do in my book that I recently wrote, which is called Embodied. It’s on Amazon, and basically, helping people who have disconnected from their body and how to reconnect to their body using kind of like the things that I stated mindfulness, grounding, connecting to your senses and your extrasensory perception, energy work and shamanism, and it basically incorporates a whole bunch of exercises that people can do at home, within the comfort of their own home to try to explore and try to reconnect to their body.

 

Manon Bolliger 30:02

That’s called Embodied

 

Vicki Roubekas 30:04

Embodied.

 

Manon Bolliger 30:05

Embodied. Do you have a copy of it?

 

Vicki Roubekas 30:07

I do.

 

Manon Bolliger 30:09

Show it. Embodied okay. Yeah. Okay, very good. Yes. I have not read it clearly. I keep thinking there will be a life of time when

 

Vicki Roubekas 30:25

I agree. It’s hard.

 

Manon Bolliger 30:27

Anyway, it was lovely meeting you.

 

Vicki Roubekas 30:30

Nice meeting you. Thank you so much Manon for facilitating this and allowing the opportunity for people like myself to get our messages out to people who need us.

 

Manon Bolliger 30:38

Exactly. You couldn’t have said it better. That’s exactly what I want. Yes, thank you.

 

ENDING: 41:33

Thank you for joining us at the Healers Café with Manon Bolliger. Continue your healing journey by visiting TheHealersCafe.com and her website and discover how to listen to your body and reboot optimal health or DrManonBolliger.com/tips.