How to Heal by Looking at the Whole Self with Dr Victoria Abdelnur on The Healers Café with Manon Bolliger

their pain. And there are a few adventurers that were doctors that I admired. And that’s why

 

Manon Bolliger 03:53

Interesting. So, I mean, let’s just talk about a little bit…I mean, coming to Canada, if you’re a doctor, because I have, you know, family members that are from Europe, and they’re doctors, but they come here and they have to basically start from scratch in order to have the title of doctor. Right? that’s, uh, you know, and otherwise you’re practicing medicine without a license. So, it’s a huge, you know, commitment, not just to do it once, but to do it again, and usually in a you know, in a foreign language. So, what is your…I mean, how do you manage with your title or how important is your title actually to you? Or does it matter.

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 04:47

So, I also did that, like when I went to Germany, I had to redo the license in German. So that was a lot of work too.

 

Manon Bolliger 04:57

Yeah, I can imagine.

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 05:01

You know, when I was studying, I didn’t care about titles, I thought they were like irrelevant. They always give you a little certificate for every conference you go to, every workshop you go to, and I just put them there didn’t pay much attention, and I just love the knowledge. But I do recognize that people treat you completely different and hear you differently. If you say, hey, I’m a medical doctor, I have a license in this country, then if you’re just talking. And I am very divided with that because there are so many people that have so many titles, and I think they’re not really helping people. You know, they have all this status, all this money that they charge, all this self-importance. And I actually would never go to them, you know. In my case, I kind of like, try not to, I feel embarrassed to put it out there, you know, I have this title, but at the same time, sometimes I feel I need to, because otherwise, people don’t take you seriously. It’s a bit.

 

Manon Bolliger 06:32

It’s a dilemma. Yeah.

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 06:33

Tricky, yes. Yes

 

Manon Bolliger 06:34

Yeah. This one because I mean, for me, too. It’s a bit, it’s different. I’m a naturopathic physician, which it’s very much, um, it’s a lot of training to become one as well. But it’s not a licensed term in every place, or every country. So, there are people who can receive a license on a weekend, or do what I did, you know, do pre-med, do four times, four years full time, do clinic and, you know, do exams and it’s like, there’s a part of me that, yeah, you gotta, you know…hey, I know what I’m talking about. On some level I want to be seen as that. But now I’m deregistered. So, it’s been a very interesting dance. And I’m deregister because I can’t follow my oath because of the current situation. So, it’s like, you know, you ask yourself, why did you get into this in the first place? Is it for the education and the knowledge? Is that really to help people? You know, and how important is the label after all, you know, and as we’re seeing society changing, I mean, I think that I mean, this pandemic has kind of woken people up to the expert to the science, you know, like, as if, okay, you know. Like, these, so many are just lying right now. And it’s like, they’re gonna be caught. And but what does that do to people who believe, you know, just like in their priest, now, it’s in their doctor, I mean, I know, from my mom’s generation, it’s like, I’ll do what the doctor says, you know, right. I mean, and I actually a convert. When the doctor said that it was impossible for my youngest sister to go to school, because she had some, she had Ben Rocking House disease. They, she said, no, then you must be wrong. She’ll be, she’ll be fine. And my sister’s completely via she’s gone to school. And so, she defied everything, you know, but in that generation authority of what the doctor says is so important. It’s interesting.

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 07:35

Yes, enormous weight. It gives enormous weight to your voice. Now, with everything that’s happening, I think that doctors have lost a little bit of that luster, that shine. But still, I mean, there’s still a lot of people that believe in the system how it is. For me, like, when I was in Germany, I was offered a career in psychiatry, and children’s psychiatry, and it was like everything was easy in front of me. The clinics, the works, the internship, I would be earning probably four times what I’m earning right now. But something inside me just couldn’t do it. Because I knew that if I did that training, I would have, like, I would be obligated to give certain medications to kids, for example, or to patients and like things I do not agree with, I cannot do it, I just cannot do it. So, my, let’s say my career is out of the ordinary I received my title as a doctor. And then instead of doing the normal specialization, I went to an ashram to meditate for 10 hours per day for two years, and etc. Like, I lived in an ashram for six years. And so, my family thinks I’m not a doctor, you know. And at the same time, I think that I can help with things that normal doctors don’t. I, many of my patients are doctors and psychologists and professors. But there’s always a little bit of internal doubts, you know, is like oh, should I have done more normal training? And, then the other part that says, no, it’s just a waste of time.

 

Manon Bolliger 11:25

Well, I mean, you know, this is talked about a lot, so I don’t want to over talk it, but the typical medical training, for example, doesn’t cover nutrition, or 11 hours or something, you know, how can you heal without paying it at all attention to nutrition, right? It’s like, if you start to really look at everything behind the programming, of being a doctor, I don’t mean that pure sciences and the understanding the body and all of that, but even the understanding of the body. I mean, I’ve seen in my own practice, you know, there’s incurable diseases, apparently. Well, you know, if you can put your different skill sets at play, and you’re really listening to your patient, often they have the answer of what they need to do. And you’re the facilitator, the witness, holding the space, you are that guide, and you can interpret things which allows them to be more comfortable with the passage that they’re taking. Right?

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 12:50

Yeah, and find real solutions.

 

Manon Bolliger 12:53

That’s exactly the case. Right? And that’s not the training.

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 12:57

Not at all

 

Manon Bolliger 12:58

Even as a naturopath. It’s not the training, you know,

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 13:02

I felt like an alien. I’m sorry. What were you saying?

 

Manon Bolliger 13:07

No, no please go on.

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 13:08

Like, I felt like an alien since day one in university. I remember I started talking about why don’t we work in teams? Like, why don’t we have a doctor and a psychologist and a physiotherapist and maybe a shaman, maybe someone that knows about plants all working together to help a patient with their problems, and they’re like, you’re crazy.

 

Manon Bolliger 13:32

Yeah

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 13:33

We are the ones that know the most all the other people are ignorant. And that makes no sense what you’re saying. Like teamwork makes no sense. exercise, stress, management, meditation, nutrition. It all makes no sense for them. The only thing that makes sense is medication. And I remember medication and surgery and all the poisons that you can imagine attacking, attacking the illnesses instead of understanding. I don’t know I just felt always very, a big resistance inside

 

Commercial Break 14:18

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Dr Victoria Abdelnur 15:01

I had to push myself to finish university because I thought so much of this that I’m memorizing, I’m never going to use it. And so, it was really hard. I mean, it was easy for me to understand that I had very good grades. And I was a teacher at university also in physiology and social sciences. But from my integrity from my way of thinking, it was hard. It was hard to repeat certain things.

 

Manon Bolliger 15:34

Well, is it when you see what’s missing, and you’re, and you educate yourself to see what else can contribute…you know, it’s like this arbitrary division between the mind and the body, it’s like, hello. They actually work together, you know, and there’s even an immunology, you know, to think that the gut, where all neurotransmitters come from, but that’s not even discussed that way, that’s only very recent, right? We’re using mind altering drugs as if it’s in a vacuum, and it’s not, you know, we’re such a…so well put together body with so many, so much potential for what we see as miracles, because we don’t understand all that there is, you know. It’s so much bigger than, than we really are, you know, but I wanted to switch the conversation a little bit, because we talked about the, you know, having degrees and how people perceive us, and one of the most biggest taboos that I have noticed in because I train other doctors and physicians, and all that is when they become ill, then it’s like, oh, my gosh, that’s like a crime, right? Because we’re supposed to be perfect. And when I developed stage four, cancer, I thought I was also you know, eating organic food, I was fit, I was doing everything I was telling my patients to do. And I got sick, and I, I didn’t, I couldn’t tell them. I just felt like I would lose all credibility with them. And so for them, I didn’t one time, I actually didn’t tell my family either. But that’s a different reason. Like, I knew that if I told my family, I would be dealing with their stories and with their beliefs of what I needed to do, and their anxiety and their worries and all that. So I kept it to myself, really, and you know, just like one, you know, one person, basically.

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 17:52

And how did you how did you get over it?

 

Manon Bolliger 17:58

Well, I ended up I actually went to get examined in a in a hospital, which I won’t name, but in Canada, and they had suggested the hysterectomy. And they had suggested all these things. And apparently, I signed. And I said no, no, no, I’m not doing it that way. I’m…I would like to be followed. I want to see how I’m progressing. But I’m going to try other things. And they wouldn’t take me back because I wasn’t following the protocol that was recommended. So, I found a a doctor from Eastern Europe, who was much more open minded. And, you know, she sort of snuck me in and verified that what I was doing was working. And what I did is a combination of different things. I did homeopathy, which worked very well for me. And then I did an introspective journey, which I call my LISTEN program. And step by step, what it what it took me to realize…what it’s going to take to turn this around and to not be victimized by this but see the part I play and that doesn’t mean oh, you take responsibility. It’s your fault. It’s not about that. It’s just…it’s dancing the dance. And yeah, and then I got I got over it. And I’m clear you know, but the reason I’m bringing this up is that many times I’ve been recommendations share this. Oh my gosh, you know, this is something important and it’s like, important to who on one level but I wanted to address the how so many doctors feel that if they are sick that they have failed, somehow, you know, and I certainly had that piece to. The other things was for my own good, I didn’t want to share. But that piece really came from this, you know, embarrassment. What is it? You know, like, how can I be good at what I do I develop that, you know?

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 20:21

Yes. And maybe it’s just a faulty way of seeing it because one learns a lot and grows a lot from this processes. And then you have even more tools to help your patients.

 

Manon Bolliger 20:37

Exactly.

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 20:40

So now, as you know, maybe there is so much more that our normal left brain doesn’t get, you know, in my case, for example, I specialized in emotional health, and I’m always saying if you are not taking care of yourself and taking toxins and stuff, like how can you be a good role model for your patients, and so I don’t drink, I don’t smoke. I meditate. I do exercise every day. But the thing is that a month ago, I got sick, like really sick, and it was stress. It was stressed. So basically for, for maybe a week or so I didn’t follow my own advice. And then I got so sick, that I lasted for weeks. And I’m still recovering. But the good thing is, I am using my own techniques and stuff, it is working. So, I guess on that side, it’s okay.

 

Manon Bolliger 21:48

Yeah, well, I think, you know, when I’ve entered into the marketing world for a while, right, because running a school, I wanted to get the message out, and I thought, how do you get a message out? And in that I realized there’s all these people, that all they have is their experience. All they have is, you know, I was this or I had this, and I no longer have it. And they have no medical training, they have no other particular training, but they have their life experience. And, you know, it was amazing, sitting watching these people that I would you know, of course, I had this in our little voice going well, gosh, you know, they’re not really experts. They don’t have the training and, but they are the experts on their life. Right? And what do patients need? The expert that calls themselves the expert, or the expert, who is another human being having human experiences, you don’t have to have the same diseases. But the disease process itself is such a teaching. You know, when you’re really looking at not just covering up the symptoms and mandating everything, but when you’re really healing from the inside out, it’s a process.

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 23:19

Yeah. And also, being able to give from, from personal experience, and not from secondhand knowledge from books that were also influenced by the pharma industry heavily.

 

Manon Bolliger 23:32

You’re right yeah. Or statistics done that way. It’s like, it’s shocking, you know, it’s a very exciting time that we’re living through now. I mean, it’s devastating on some level, of course. But it’s exciting, too, because I think so much is coming out in the world, to more transparency of what has been hidden forever. Yeah, I think we have for those who choose it, to choose to see, I think, yeah, we’re on the precipice of just amazing possibilities and so many things that have been, you know, hidden from our knowledge coming out left, right and center and a lot of the corruption actually being unveiled. And I think it’s such a blessing to be to be here at this time. You know, it’s also very difficult. I mean, it’s, it’s both right.

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 24:43

Yes, I agree. It’s been, it’s being hard and stressful. But at the same time, I think consciousness is expanding so fast right now. I guess we humans have to, you know, pain is the biggest motivator for growth.

 

Manon Bolliger 25:00

Yes, apparently so. So, I didn’t look at when we started, but I know I’m trying to keep my my podcast about half an hour. Is there anything else that you would like to add that we haven’t really covered? That feels right to say,

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 25:22

For the health professionals that listen or for?

 

Manon Bolliger 25:28

Both, because both listen.

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 25:32

All right, so for the health professionals, I would say that sometimes our biggest pains, or our biggest gifts can become our biggest gifts. And for everybody else the same. I don’t know. But also check that your…that the health professional that you go to is authentic, and is sincere, because nobody knows everything. But if you’re able to say, hey, I don’t know this, I’m going to research it, or I don’t know this, I’m gonna find another professional that is an expert on this to help you. You know, that is so much more valuable than someone that thinks or wants to appear as they know it all.

 

Manon Bolliger 26:27

Yeah, I think I’m very much a collaborative person myself, you know, that your dream of the right team, that’s very much how I’ve seen them practicing as well, because I think and the more that the patient knows, the more that they can tune into their own, knowing what is the right way, you know, there are so many doors possible. You know, and that’s why I say even though I’ve had patients who elected surgery, because it was so deep of belief that it would have been a mistake to say, well, you know, maybe it’s not necessary. You know, and of course, in some level, I share that, but I never got rid of their safe dream that this would work. You know, it’s very important to know where people stand and also to trust what they know. We don’t know what we don’t know about other people.

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 27:35

Right. Yes.

 

Manon Bolliger 27:36

Right. So, I think it’s, yeah, it’s a…anyways, life is a great adventure.

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 27:44

It is, it is.

 

Manon Bolliger 27:46

So, one last thing you do workshops, right?

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 27:50

I do workshops. Yes, I teach, and workshops in two days, three and a half hours per day to learn a very specific type of meditation that is mixed between Vedic ancient Vedic meditation and modern neuroscience that is very powerful, very easy to do for a busy Western people. And with that, also a routine that includes emotional release and physical exercise and just a healthy routine to address all levels of health. And so, with that, I teach a whole system that has changed my life and has changed the lives of many of my patients. I do it once per month, I was teaching one on one but then I just got bored of repeating myself so much.

 

Manon Bolliger 28:54

There is a lot that happens in groups too. But do you do this in person only or do you do it? Zoom? Or do you have…

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 29:02

Online.

 

Manon Bolliger 29:03

Online?

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 29:04

Yes. My next workshop is let me tell you on July the 23rd and the 24th of July and it’s online so anybody from anywhere in the world can do the workshop with me.

 

Manon Bolliger 29:20

Okay well I hope you gave us a link to that and then we’ll put it in or the next one because I’m not sure when this will be live but yeah, I’m happy to send people and see how that goes. I’m always saying that you know, you better connect with people and then choose who will be in your path to healing

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 29:39

Exactly. Also, for health professional, this is really good because it is stressful to deal with people that are ill because we take on a lot. We get stressed, when I remember when I was in third year, and I started going to the hospital I would come back home crying because of all the cases I saw in the hospital and that was unhealthy that isn’t unhealthy for someone that is working with that every day. And this workshop that I give this method helped me heal a lot of stuff. So then now as a health professional, I can totally connect with compassion with empathy with my patient, but it doesn’t affect me in I don’t bring it home. So that’s really for doctors.

 

Manon Bolliger 30:30

Okay, well, I’ll definitely put that in it was lovely speaking with you today.

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 30:35

Thank you so much.

 

Manon Bolliger 30:36

I enjoyed our conversation.

 

Dr Victoria Abdelnur 30:37

Thank you.

 

ENDING: 41:33

Thank you for joining us at the Healers Café with Manon Bolliger. Continue your healing journey by visiting TheHealersCafe.com and her website and discover how to listen to your body and reboot optimal health or DrManonBolliger.com/tips.