How Your Patients Heal Through Listening with Dr Russ Rosen, ND on The Healers Café with Dr. Manon Bolliger, ND

stay healthy, by empowering them versus manipulating them. That’s who I work with, and I’ve been doing that since 2000.

 

Dr. Manon 03:28

Great. And so, tell us a little bit more about what this whole patient care versus patient scare part. What is it you mean by that?

 

Dr Russ Rosen 03:42

Yeah, well, so much important. Especially in the chiropractic field, we have a lot of what we have learned, which is to manipulate people or to scare people. It’s the subluxation, the silent killer. And you know, it’s about if I manipulate you, I can get you to do the care you need. And it’s all tied up in a pink bow, which is it’s in your best interest. But as you and I know, the last thing I want to do is cause fear. I’m in love with medicine and miracles. Well, Bernie of love medicine, miracles, he said, Look, I tell people all the time, that they do have cancer, but I tell them in the same breath, and I’m going to introduce you to five people today who had the same thing that you have, who have healed themselves and he said, as far as I’m concerned, the ones who die are the ones that allow the fear to set in. So, for me, it’s all about empowering people. And being honest with them, being transparent, being truthful, but learning how to communicate with them in a way that helps them really get it in and unfortunately, so much of what we learned is to educate People, and it doesn’t work. It just simply doesn’t work. So, I really got into the neuroscience of communications, which is a different way of helping our patients get what we do. And my experience is, if they really get what we do, they probably want what we offer. And they’ll happily stay paying refer for a lifetime. If they really get it. Unfortunately, most don’t really get it. So, my whole world is about how do we learn the neuroscience of communications and apply it to our practice.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 05:35

So just to clarify on that point, from a marketing perspective, when I talked to some of my students, I’m always saying, well, let’s talk about the benefits for them. Why would they bother doing the treatments? Like what’s in it really, ultimately, for them? As opposed to Hey, let me tell you about this modality, it works this way. And then na na na. And then you get completely lost in the weeds? Are you meaning that to a level, or are we talking about more than that?

 

Dr Russ Rosen 06:12

Yeah, that’s the beginning of it. And it’s a lot more than that, but it’s absolutely true. Look, here’s the deal. They don’t care. They don’t care about Tom Bowen. They don’t care about D. D. Palmer, chiropractic, they don’t care about natural naturopathy. They don’t care about any of that they ……….all they care about is I want to feel better, as fast as possible for the least amount of money. Now, I’ve worked with doctors all over the world, literally, all over the world. And people are the same everywhere. Yeah, there’s different cultural differences. In general, I want to feel better as soon as possible for the least amount of money. So, what we have to do is learn how to communicate with people so we can help them get our entire story. So unfortunately, so many people come in to see us. Well, fortunately, unfortunately, because they’re in pain, and they want to get out of pain. But here’s my question. If somebody recognized that you could help them get out of pain, but you could also help them resolve their problems. And you could help them get healthy and stay healthy. And you could help them have a better life with some of them be interested in that also? And the answer is yes, you and I both know that. I read up on you. So, I know that, right. And so, the deal is, is that I can just meet them here, I will help that feel better. But we’re doing them a disservice if we recognize how much more we can do for them. The problem is this is a big gap. It’s like the Grand Canyon. So, it’s like saying, Dr. M, hi, I see you’re on the other side of the Grand Canyon, please jump. It’s too far of a leap. So, we have to learn how to communicate with them to stretch their consciousness, so they understand the value of what we truly offer them. And then all we have to do is find out what they want. So, we literally plant seeds along the way of what we can do for them. So, we use this path to optimal health, which is negative 10 is near death. And we know it because you’re in hospice care. Zero is comfort, you’re feeling good, but you’re not functioning at your optimum, you’re not really healthy, but you feel good. And then there’s optimal health, you’re as healthy as you can be. And we have to take them through a series of steps to help them recognize where they’re truly at, find out where they truly want to get to. And if they just want to get to hear far out, that’s okay. And if they want to get healthy and stay healthy, that’s okay, too. What’s not okay is to not let them know the difference between the two. And what you can truly do for them. At least from my perspective.

 

Dr. Manon 08:57

Oh, I I totally agree. And honestly, I’ve been guilty of that. When I first thought Oh, well, I’ll be doing Bowen therapy for pain elimination. They’re coming in for pain I can help them get rid of pain. And there’s so much more I mean, it was like they said, well, they feel great. So, and then I kind of let it go at this point. This is the in the beginnings of my practice. And I realized that it was already difficult for them to believe they could get rid of pain. That’s already one big obstacle. The other obstacle is that we can thrive, and we can actually live the life that we create. So, I couldn’t as a practitioner, share that part. Thankfully that changed I grew into more consciousness myself, which allowed me then to see that ……and stand for that and people.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 10:04

And it’s so simple to help them get that bigger picture. Hopefully we’ll jump into that today of how to do what it takes. I would just say if somebody had a subluxation, chiropractor if somebody had a facile, you know, imbalance or a blockage, and let’s just say it was in their calf. Right, could that affect their gait? Yes. And if in fact they gait could affect their pelvis? Yes. And it affected their pelvis could affect the nerves. Yes. And we affect the nerves, could it affect their motor, sensory and autonomic systems? Yes, and I mean, it’s just like, you know, the ankle bones connected knee bone, the knee bone is connected to hip bone, the hip bones connected to the universe. And our job is to help them see that if there is an imbalance here, it’s not you’re not in need. You’re a closed system. You’re an entire human being mind, body, and spirit. And yes, you have a knee pain going on. But that may not be where the problem is located. That may not be what we need to do to resolve that problem. You could have a facial constrict stiction going on here, that when this unwinds, everything unwinds, and now your knee is feeling better. So, what I like to do, and it again, it just depends on how you work in the umbrella of how you work. So, I work with doctors who are chiropractors, and naturopaths, and osteopaths. And, you know, and they do all these different styles of work. And it’s just like, these are all the tools in my toolbox, but my one single goal is to help you get as healthy as you would like to get, and ill use whichever tool is appropriate for you. I may do neuro emotional work and may do spiritual work. I may do physical work, I may do spit, pee and poop tests and do more functional medicine kind of work and nutritional work doesn’t matter. It’s all what am I doing to get the system to come back to homeostasis balance and optimal health again. And so that fits in with your model and for your listeners?

 

Dr. Manon 12:18

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it’s really important to see that this this model, does not depend on the modality. It’s the framework in which the modalities fit in.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 12:33

That’s it, it’s the framing, thank you. That’s beautiful. And that’s why it doesn’t matter. You know, again, with all the different practitioners that I coach, and I work with health coaches, and epic geneticists, and you know, all kinds of stuff, it doesn’t matter, do you need to communicate the value of your work to another human being who is in need? Yes, I can help. It’s as simple as that. So let’s take a look at this, it’s called the neuroscience of communications. And it’s based on when you and I have an average conversation, we will both hear about 25% of what the other person is saying. Some of the time, I’m thinking of how I would reply to you some of the time I’m thinking I’m distracted with something else. Some of the time I’m thinking here to pick up, you know, eggs, you know, and we just, we start, like, not really hearing and seeing much. And my question is, you as a practitioner, how much of your information that you need them to understand about how you can help them? How much of your information would you like them to understand?

 

Dr. Manon 13:36

Well, I mean, my role is really, at the way I see it is, is listening, it’s really listening to where they’re at, and then seeing how I can move the needle in the direction of where they want to go, or getting them to clarify, to stretch slightly more than their expectation in that sense, you know, commit. So that’s, kind of where I go. So, it’s not a pat answer for every single case, or people that come in,

 

Dr Russ Rosen 14:11

No, not at all. But at some point, you’ve got to communicate with them. Where you have to hear and then give information back. My question is, how much of your information would you like them to hear? And the answer is 100%.

 

Dr. Manon 14:27

Oh, I see it. I see what you’re saying. Yeah, of what I want to share how much I want them to actually understand.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 14:33

Yeah, what I want them to hear because they’re only going to hear 25% if I don’t do something different. So, the way we do something different is the neuroscience of communications. And that is based on this concept that the reptilian brain survival is going to filter all information coming in. It’s going to either A, filter it out and we won’t hear it or B it’ll send it to the neocortex for thinking reasoning and problem solving, if it makes it to the neocortex for thinking reasoning and problem solving, it’ll get dropped into the limbic system is a new belief system, they’ll either believe what you have to say, or they won’t. But either way about it, it’s going to end up over here. The problem is, with the filtering, so you can imagine you have brand new parents, and they have a baby, and they’re laying down in there in New York, and there’s sirens and there’s trains going by, and they’re sleeping just fine. And their baby cries, and they wake up. That’s the reptilian brain. It’s saying this is important. There are hundreds of thousands of impulses per second coming into the brain, but only a handful that are making it up for thinking reasoning and problem solving. The trick is, how do I get my information to get past your filter into your neocortex for thinking, reasoning and problem solving? How do I do that? Well, here’s the deal. What we were taught was to educate. Dr. M I’m going to educate you. I’m going to tell you about Tom Bowen, I’m going to tell you about the way I work. Great. And that’s me speaking from my neocortex to your neocortex, but we know 25%. If I want, you to get 100% I need to quit speaking from my neocortex to your neocortex. I need to speak from my neocortex to your reptilian brain. So why do I need to speak from my neocortex to your reptilian brain? Any idea?

 

Dr. Manon 16:46

I think because we’re wired to self-protect. And I think because you’ll feel the emotions. I mean, I’m not sure where you’re going with it.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 16:50

So, let’s look, if I speak from my neocortex to your reptilian brain, and your reptilian brain finds it important, it’ll send it to the neocortex for thinking, reasoning and problem solving. That’s why I need to speak here. So, it’ll send it here. We keep thinking, if I speak and educate you, it’ll get there. But it has to go through the filter first. So why don’t I just learn to speak to the filter. So, the filter is filtering information. It’s all about the three F’s food, fighting and fornication, probably not good ideas to do with your patients. So, if we’re going to get our information past the reptilian brain, we have to make it new, novel, and exciting. We have to make it about them that you talked about earlier, what do they care about? They care about them. Right? So, if I can, you know, one of the best ways and we won’t have time to go into this now normally……. I like to, but we have a shorter period of time. But in the consultation, I go into, how do we listen in the consultation? How do we ask the appropriate questions to engage the reptilian brain? So that we’re educating them while we’re asking Socratic questions. How do we do that? It’s very simple. We get on time at this moment. But that’s what I’m going to do. So how do I get the information to the neocortex? I’m going to make it new novel and exciting which means Dr. M, I’m going to make this conversation about you. I’m not gonna make it about Tom Bowen I’m not gonna make those chiropractors, it’s about you. You’re talking about you, you’re excited, you’re interested, especially if you get to talk about your pain and your problems because no one else will listen. But I’m listening. So, you’re engaged, If I make it new novel and exciting and I asked Socratic questions, Doctor, what’s your last name?

 

Dr. Manon 18:59

Bolliger

 

Dr Russ Rosen 19:00

Okay, Bolliger I love the way you say that? Did you already know that? Or was that new information to you?

 

Dr. Manon 19:08

I already knew that.!!!!

 

Dr Russ Rosen 19:09

already knew that. So that’s not a Socratic question. We’ve all heard the term Socratic question. A Socratic question is a question that makes people go like this. er , what? So, let me ask you, why do you think this happened? Why do you think this isn’t getting any better? Why do you think this hasn’t resolved? What level of health are you at what level of health you want to get to? That’s a Socratic question, which makes people think, now when you ask the Socratic question, you will see them do this. They’ll look at you. You’ll ask them the question and they’ll do this. Yeah, you know, I, I think that is what brought it on. And when they look up, they’re literally sending your information to their neocortex for thinking reasoning and problem solving. And then they drop it into their lympic system. So, as you would talk about listening in our consultation, we’re going to draw their story out.

 

Commercial Break 20:07

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Dr Russ Rosen 20:53

I’m gonna draw your story out of them by Socratic questions. I’m not telling you anything. I’m simply pulling your story out of you. And then I’m taking my story. I’m applying it to your story, right? And this is now your story. And you will drop it into your limbic system. And once it’s in your limbic system, it’s your belief system. It’s not Dr. Ross said………. it’s Oh, this makes sense. So far, so good.

 

Dr. Manon 21:22

Yeah. Oh, yeah. It’s funny. The way you’re describing it feels very intuitive to me, but it’s brilliantly explained.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 21:37

Because you’re doing a lot of this. I just like to teach it by design, such as in the consult We’re gonna build rapport. We’re gonna relieve concerns and fears like why do you want to build rapports so that you trust me? And you know me? Because if you don’t, you won’t send anything to the neocortex for thinking reasoning and problem solving. I’m going to relieve concerns and fears How come because if you’re in your amygdala fight or flight, you won’t send information, the neocortex for thinking reason and problem solving. I’m going to find out why you’re truly here there’s only one of three possible reasons. And I’m going to ask your questions, we’re going to find out which one it is. So, you now really know a bigger picture of why you’re here, I’m going to find out like , it’s by design, there are six questions, I’m going to ask him in the consult I know exactly what I need to accomplish. It happens very, very fast. And I’ve now taken you to a new level of understanding, because I’ve applied my story to your story. Here’s an example. We’ve been talking about how this is affecting your life, let’s say it’s golf, and you want to be able to golf. And if I were to say, so if I understand it correctly, you don’t just want to feel better. So, you can golf again. But you’d like to resolve this once and for all, so you can continue to golf, is that true? They will go like this. That is true. I drew their story out of them, I would like to golf, I applied my story that you’d like to resolve your problem, not just feel better. And then I asked you Is that true? And this is now your story that I actually want to resolve my problems. So, in the consult there’s three different ways we start planting seeds for when we eventually asked them, Do you want to just get feeling better knowing that you haven’t fully resolved it? And that’s okay for you? Or do you want to get as much resolution as possible? We’ve already planted seeds in so many different ways that they completely………….. when we get here, they just go well, of course I want to resolve it. assuming that’s their truth. And if they don’t, they don’t match. Okay. So far, so good.

 

Dr. Manon 23:48

Great.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 23:49

All right. So, we’re running out on time here. So, I’m gonna, I’m gonna speak fast, everybody listen fast. So, what I want to do is just show in the examination, how do we shift their consciousness and go from feeling to function, and it’s really simple. Now what I’m going to do is I’m going to use the word subluxation, it could be blockage, it could be interference, it could be neural interference. It’s just whatever it is that you do with people, and I’ll go back and forth between say word subluxation and say it was a facial blockage. So, would that that’ll work with Bowen So what I do is I have this brochure, and it says, Do I have a health problem or a back problem? So, when somebody comes in with neck pain, back pain, headaches, I want to shift their consciousness from back pain to help because it’s honest, it’s true. Right? Right. So, I’m going to use this phrase. Oftentimes, if you have a subluxation or fashional imbalance causing ….blank… we’d expect to see blank and that would make sense because blank. I’m going to connect to their chief complaint. To the nervous system, I’m going to talk motor, sensory, autonomic, and then I’m going to prove my case, the same phrase over and over and over. So I’m going to just walk you through this, okay? Let’s assume somebody had headaches. We’ve already done our consultation, and I’d say, Doctor M show me where your head hurts. And she goes, right there, and I’m going to touch you. And I’m going to say, you know, oftentimes, if you have a subluxation, or facial imbalance, causing these kinds of headaches, we might find a tender spot. There is a tender there. Why yes, it is. I think we may have found an underlying cause your problem, and it would make sense because this nerve goes right to there. So, if you’ve got nerve irritation, or facial, imbalance, or blockage here, it could be causing radiating pain right there. And they go, Wow, that’s new, it’s novel. It’s exciting. You’re talking about me, you’re talking about my health, they’re fully engaged. So, it’s sending it to the neocortex for thinking reason and problem solving now and make the picture a little bit bigger. And it’s interesting. Oftentimes, when you do have that fashional imbalance causing that type of headache, we might notice, oh, let’s see the window, we might notice and then we have this chart.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 26:18

Spaciness, this dizziness, mood swings, brain fog, eyes, ears, nose, throat, add issues. Do you ever get any of those? I get those all the time, do me a favor, I want you to take your pen, I want you to circle see one or this fascial area, I want you to circle headaches, because that’s your chief complaint. I want you to underline all these other things you have going on. So, they’re starting to see this connection between my health and my facial imbalance. And then I’m going to say, well, that makes sense, because the nerves don’t just go here in the festival balance doesn’t just affect this, but it also affects all of this. And then it can connect that to another area, let’s say mid back. Do you ever get any pain between the shoulder blades? Yeah, especially towards the end of the day? Yes. How did you know? Well, when you have fashion imbalance here, that’s what we would expect to see it makes sense because of the nervous system right there. But oftentimes, we’ll see gas bloating, indigestion heartburn. Do you ever notice that? How did you know? Well, because these nerves also affect the liver, gallbladder, spleen, pancreas, whatever it is, you’re talking about? And they go, oh, my God, why didn’t anyone ever tell me this before I had no idea. So, it’s that simple to connect those dots for them. And then I just proved my case. But I’ll use the same phrase. And I’ll tell you, I made a link ohesystem.com/manon So if you go there, I have a I have a 84 minutes detail of really how to do this, because I can’t do it justice here. But you can go get that and you can actually get this to send that to you. Or this if you’d like, I’ll send you one of those. But if you go there, you get more detail. But I just want to show you how it all comes together. Which is okay, I see that I came in for headaches, it could be related to this imbalance. It also could be related to my other years of problems. Oh, it can be related to my other problems, too. Wow, that’s amazing, then I’m going to prove my case. You know, it’s interesting doctor. I’m also oftentimes if you have this kind of problem going on subluxation, or fascia imbalance, we’ll see a limited range of motion, do me a favor, turn your head to the left, turn your head to the right. You see that it doesn’t want to go to the right. Well, that makes sense. You I’m using the same phrase. That makes sense. Because when you’re having that kind of imbalance those nerves cause the muscles pulling the bone to protect the area. It’s nature’s color, it’s protecting the area, right? And then when it does that it feels stuck in type. Do you feel stuck in type? Yes, I do. Then you must be what? Well, I must be subluxated or I must have this kind of facia imbalance. And we’re literally drawing their story out of them. We’re applying our story to their story. we’re dropping it in their limbic system. Then all we have to do the last thing on the back is called shoot, the sun’s coming through. But anyhow, it’s called the whole story right here. And so literally, this is what it would be like in real time. We’re gonna play you just circled. See one headache sinus, and you circled mid back into gesture. That’s what you circled on this forum for me while we did your exam. So, I’m going to get you to say these four things out loud. Now remember, if I tell you this, I’m speaking from my neocortex your neocortex. If I ask you this, I’m speaking from my neocortex to your reptilian brain. And then I can see that you’ll send it to your neocortex for thinking and problem solving you either get it or you don’t. Remember I said 100%. Right. So let me ask you this question. We just went through this information; you’re going to get to take this home with you. But I’m going to make a copy. So, tell me, where did we find your facial imbalances?

 

Dr. Manon 30:19

Okay, can’t see anything, but I’ll say C at C1. And, and also you found it in the middle of my back.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 30:27

Exactly. Now, how do I know that? She’s going to know that because she circled it. And I’m pointing at it. That’s how I know she’s got it. Then I’m going to say and what could that c one issue be causing? What could that be causing with what we just talked about?

 

Dr. Manon 30:44

Oh, the headaches and the indigestion and the sinus problems?

 

Dr Russ Rosen 30:49

Exactly. So, these are where they are these imbalances. This is what it could be causing. And then I’m going to just ask him probably what brought these on in the first place? Well, we just talked about it in the consultation. Now, number two, is I’m going to ask you this. What do you think happened? Well, you can’t see. But doesn’t matter. What do you think happens over time? If we don’t get these taken care of, and we don’t really resolve these, what do you think happens?

 

Dr. Manon 31:16

Well, they’re gonna get worse and worse, and get more symptoms.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 31:22

I’d agree. Now, you’ll notice I’m agreeing with you, right? I’m agreeing with your story. Yeah. I’m not telling you. I’m asking you. It’s all based on the right questions. The third one is this. So let me ask you this, if we were to really get this taken care of and resolve it, right. I’m using the artwork, if we’re to really get this taken care of and resolve it and show you ways to quit recreating it? How do you think you would feel?

 

Dr. Manon 31:51

I think I’d feel more vital and vibrant and healthier.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 31:55

I agree. And do you think that it could help you with your headaches?

 

Dr. Manon 32:01

Oh, for sure.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 32:02

Yeah. What about your sinus problems?

 

Dr. Manon 32:04

It seems related.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 32:06

I agree. I’d have to agree. And so, what about your future? If we’re no longer going to be creating these problems? And it’s not getting worse? We’re resolving these. What about our future? What do we see for our future?

 

Dr. Manon 32:23

Well, I would say that I I’m less limited in things I say no to because of the headaches and opportunities. I close up.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 32:34

Absolutely. And really, my goal is for you to have a better life. So, let me ask you, do you think if we were to take care of these and show you is not recreated? Do you think that you could be healthier in five years than you are right now?

 

Dr. Manon 32:49

I can’t see why not actually.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 32:51

Me too. And that’s my goal for you. So, with your neck pain, but also headaches and sinus problems, and mid back pain, indigestion and low back pain encoded tongue, stinky armpits, explosive diarrhea, is this just a neck problem? Or is this an overall health problem? What do you think?

 

Dr. Manon 33:12

yeah, you’ve got a point there. It might all be related.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 33:15

Yeah, I think it is. And that’s it. I mean, that’s literally what it takes. And then, in the report of findings, literally just asked him, you know, where do you think you’re at? Where do you want to get to, and then we just take, if that’s what you want, I’m happy to help you get there. And then we show them how to get there. And if they just want to feel better, help them feel better. And if they want to get as much resolution as possible, help them do it. But regardless of how we practice, Bowen and chiropractic, and functional medicine, Bowen and Naturopathy it doesn’t matter. That’s the umbrella of the tools we use to help people get healthy and stay healthy. Yeah. And it’s all by understanding the neuroscience indications that I’m not going to lecture; I’m just going to ask Socratic questions. There’s a series of questions, you ask people to take them from here to there, then you give them what they want, whatever it is.

 

Dr. Manon 34:21

 it’s funny, you know, I came across my understanding of this through marketing, not through health.

 

Dr. Manon 34:30

 I’ve learned actually from creating a business a lot, how to retrospectively look at our……… creating the gap and helping people reach the goal, they, need to state and change the structure so that you’re agreeing basically with them, and I think that’s, it’s fascinating the way to hear it from somebody else. So clearly, and it’s Because I seem to win when people are in their healing process, you know, I often use Chinese medicine to explain. Well, this, this makes sense……… then and, you know, because they’ve told me something. And that’s the engagement. It’s how they feel empowered. And they’re like they’re in charge, you know, and it’s a beautiful shift.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 35:24

And, just for fun, you didn’t find the neuroscience communications, anything, they absolutely apply it to marketing. No question. I mean, it’s the same thing. We’re trying to help these people recognize they want this thing. So, they buy it, we’re trying to help these people recognize it. It’s the exact same thing. Right? It just, it’s so simple. And it’s so easy. But when we don’t know it, we keep having the same problems. We have people that seem like they’re with us, but they got to go home and think about it. Or they seem like they’re happy. And then they quit care. And we’re scratching our head, and we don’t get why. And it’s because they didn’t get it. And really it all comes down in the end to if I can ask you the right questions. You will come up to your truth on your own. And it won’t be my truth. It’ll be your truth. But I’m not trying to manipulate you to my truth. Really, whichever you choose is fine. I just need to help you find your truth. The problem is when you came in, you thought this is all I could do for you. Now that you know I could do this for you. Also, the question is, might You want more? And the answer is most people do want more. They just didn’t know they could get it from you.

 

Dr. Manon 36:41

Exactly. Yeah. I think we lose so many patients who then need to look for the same answers somewhere else. When we really, you know, we’re equipped to do it. And it is communications, it’s, it’s the ability to listen to reposition what they’re saying. directly to move them in their direction. We’re here to serve. It literally is that way. And so anyway? Well, thank you. That was and you gave the link where people can find out more about you. I think it’s also in your description.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 37:22

It’s the ohcsystem.com/manon and if you go there, you can check out this other very detailed webinar I do on this at no charge. You can choose either this or this. And I’ll send it to you at no charge. Print out as many as you like forever. And if you’d like and you’re really serious, and you want to see how I can help you grow. You can get a 60-minute session with me where we can get clear about where you’re at where you want to get to and if I might be the right guy to help.

 

Dr. Manon 38:04

Okay, great. Sure, my whole community will super appreciate that. Thank you very much for your time.

 

Dr Russ Rosen 38:11

Thank you so much.

Thank you for joining us. For more information, go to DrManonBolliger.com.