How to Decipher Intuition Vs Instinct
with Sue Dumais on The Healers Café with Dr. Manon Bolliger, ND

worst as well. And I wrote a poem one night when I was drunk, and I woke up in the morning, you know, kind of opening my eyes, I can’t believe I’m still alive feeling. And then I remembered writing a poem. And I went to the garbage because I crumpled it up and threw it out. And I opened up the poem and I read it. And it was at that moment that I really realized that if I kept going on the path I was going, I wouldn’t be in this world very long. And I knew at that moment that I needed to get help. And that’s where everything shifted. And that really catapulted me onto this path of personal growth and self-discovery.

 

Dr. Manon  05:40

What is intuition to you? Now you realize it’s a gift, but what is that in your words, because it’s funny this morning, I had a discussion with somebody else saying, they had very strong opinions about what intuition is. And so it started raising questions on the subject. So it’s actually perfect timing as life always is. But you’re here, and that’s your specialty. So, tell us what intuition is. And this audience is both medically trained all kinds of practitioners, as well as the public who’s just interested. So go as in-depth as you want. Feel free.

 

Sue Dumais  06:24

Well, for me, I feel like intuition, you can’t just say, okay, intuition is this period. So intuition is for me, an exploration of really connecting, a deep connection to an inner knowing. And that inner knowing goes beyond the physical limitations or the ideas or programming that we have in our minds. So sometimes when we get these intuitive hits, or this intuitive knowing or inner knowing it can come in a variety different ways. Some people get messages, some people hear a voice in their head, some people just feel a sense of knowing, some people have a physical sense of it, a gut instinct, you can call it so many things. And I believe that what is really important to discern is, what is it for me? What is it for you? How does it show up in your world? How does it show up for you? And that’s really what we’re wanting to tap into and help people with, because the more we can align with that intuition, the more we can actually serve. So another way to look at it is I always see that intuition is the bridge, and I use the heart. My business is heart-led living, so I use the heart as that bridge for our intuition. And I talk about how the heart or our intuition is a bridge between our divinity and our humaneness. And so what we’re tapping into is more of a global perspective of a global knowing or a grand understanding of what’s going on in the world. Which then sends us messages to our human self, to be able to interpret and fulfill whatever we’re meant to fulfill in this life. So intuition creates this bridge between our divinity and our humaneness.

 

Dr. Manon  08:22

Okay, so you make a distinction between them, intuition and instinct.

 

Sue Dumais  08:27

Instincts can be intuition and intuition can be instincts and then they can be separate as well. So we can have these humankind of instinctual reactions or responses in our body, or we can have instincts based on our human understanding or human programming. And then we can have more intuitive hits, which are not necessarily limited by our own programming, our own beliefs, and thoughts. So, yes and no, and both.

 

Dr. Manon  09:04

But what we say to you, what is the difference between instinct and intuition?

 

Sue Dumais  09:14

I feel like instinct is more limited by our humaneness. It’s more dictated by our humaneness. Our human body, our human ideas, our brain, our programming, our fear, our history, our past, our memories. Whereas intuition goes,  beyond all of those things.

 

Dr. Manon  09:40

I’m just playing the devil’s advocate. It’s a subject I’m obviously very interested in anyways, but for me, instinct is what we are brought up with. It’s part of our survival mechanism, it’s part of what is created in response to our first seven years of life. So, to me, instinct is there to protect us. Hence, it’s fear-based. So that’s how I’ve always seen it like it can save your life, for sure. But it’s different to me, very much so, then intuition. So that’s how I differentiate the physiology in the body, it actually comes from a different place.

 

Sue Dumais  10:33

And you can even talk about, that’s what I talked about, like in our humaneness instinct is connected to our humaneness, right in our humaneness. In our human experiences, we have our past, but we also have past life influences as well. So I’ve worked with a lot of people where their past life is actually creating that instinctual reaction in the present moment, as well. So yeah, I agree.

 

Dr. Manon  11:00

So,  because you work with people, and you have groups and all that, how do you get people to connect to their intuition? Is there a methodology that you have found?  Because I know when, with my own patients, the question often is like, How do I know if that’s the voice of intuition? That’s one of the most commonly I’ve got one answer for that. But I’m always looking for insight. So what do you tell people?

 

Sue Dumais  11:36

Yeah, I think for me, getting people in touch with their intuition is more of a process of unwinding, undoing, unschooling, unprogramming, unlearning, and removing all the blocks that are interfering with that clear, intuitive channel. So we’re born intuitive, we are programmed to be less intuitive, right? So it’s about removing all the programming. And in the process of remembering our intuition, remembering how we feel it and know it and sense it. Now, the discernment that’s a whole practice in itself is discerning. How do I know its head versus heart? How do I know that that voice I hear is actually my heart’s voice versus my head’s voice or my ego, my fear speaking to me? The best advice I give people is to get out of thinking about what it is and more about feeling into it. So when you hear something, or when you sense something, tap into the feeling behind the intuition or the feeling behind that insight. And that’s where the divine discernment that subtle discernment comes in. Because what we’re tapping into is the emotions and the energy behind it, which gives you more clarity. It gives you more certainty that yes, this is alignment. And no, this is fear, disguised as guidance, which the eagle loves to do. It’s very clever and loves to evolve and become our greatest cheerleader or can hijack our spiritual language and all those kinds of things. So the divine discernment for me really comes into the feeling. And if you can feel the energy behind it, then you’re more likely to get more of a clarity around where it’s coming from.

 

Dr. Manon  13:31

Okay, so let me give you a hypothetical case. Because now they’re pretty constant with so many people in fear, and so many people having greater anxiety, getting more depressed. Partially because of the economy, what’s happening in this world, and the impact isolation has for many people. So there’s a lot going so a lot of things that happen now are also breaking up families, breaking up couples. Which is a time of reconsideration and reawakening. There’s always a way to, at least I find that the mind can always find a way to say, well, it’s perfect timing. We’re just now at the point where this is emerging so it’s time to look at these things. But I have one case that comes to mind that I was trying to explain what intuition is, and how to feel into it. And I’m just so curious because it’s so fresh. So this person whom I will not name, has a huge decision to make and wants to be led by the right feeling and so he knows or believes, this is the belief, that he’s unhappy currently. And he knows that his wife is doing everything in her capacity to improve her mental state, her emotional state. But he is absolutely miserable in the situation because her panic-stricken fear mode is starting to impact him very strongly. And yet at the same time, I said, “How are you really feeling?” And he said, “Well, if I were to feel,” like he said, “I feel like the relationship is over.” That was the feeling he had, and it has been over for a while in his heart, but he’s full of love and recognition of her being available to him for years. So they’ve been together for a long time. It’s like the typical sort of Alzheimer’s situation or anything like that, where it’s like, there’s a major shift that makes the present moment in a repeated way, very unhappy. And so he can’t go on like this but doesn’t know how to choose because neither option feels right.

 

Sue Dumais  16:41

Here’s the thing. It’s not always a feeling of rightness. It’s not always a feeling of good. It can show up as like, ‘Okay, my heart is leading me to something. And my mind is resisting it’. So he has a knowing in his heart that the relationship is over. But he doesn’t want to take those steps, or he’s not willing to take those steps or something in his mind is in conflict with that. So then he’s in resistance, right? So the knowing is there, it sounds like.

 

Sue Dumais  17:14

Here’s the other part is given the history by making that decision, there’s a very high chance that it would end up in suicide or some sort of something that he would feel responsible for. So that’s part of his knowing, too.

 

Sue Dumais  17:34

I understand. And I’ve had those experiences where I had to make that hard choice to follow my heart, even when I knew it was going to create chaos for another person. Because when we do follow our heart, when we do follow and trust our intuition, it’s operating on everyone’s behalf, including the individual that we may hurt by that decision, right? So when we follow our intuition, what we’re really doing is making a choice for love. And the choice for love sometimes doesn’t look kind, it sometimes isn’t received well, but it doesn’t mean we stay out of fear. Right? However, we get to choose, as humans we get to choose. So he may have that knowing that the relationship is over, but he’s not willing to choose as a human being to leave. That’s okay too. But having the ability to discern, okay, I know in my heart, the relationship is over. That’s one piece of the puzzle. Then the next question is, is it guided for me to leave right now? Is it guided for me to leave this relationship? Is that what my intuition is saying? Because it’s all about timing as well, right? So it’s the questions we ask that will lead us to the guidance in the moment. But at the same time, we still have to meet ourselves in our human emotions and say, ‘You know what? I know in my heart, I meant to leave. I just can’t bring myself to do that. And I’m too afraid and that’s okay. Totally. Okay.’ But having the awareness that that’s the choice you’re making is empowering.

 

Dr. Manon  19:01

Exactly it brings you back to peace.

 

Sue Dumais  19:25

So there’s a lot in that to kind of play. But it really depends on, the quality of the question determines the answer we get as well. So we have to be kind of open and curious because our intuition is what I see it’s a connection to our inner spirit or divine spirit guiding us. And when we ask a question, “Okay, spirit, would you have me do a or b?”

 

Dr. Manon  19:50

Hi, it’s Dr.Manon and I just wanted to take a moment, a commercial break to ask you to subscribe to my channel podcast, and kindly leave a comment if you’re enjoying this. And also, just to let you know, I have tips for people in health looking for solutions to some variety of issues. It’s more like an attitude of health. And they’re entertaining short videos and you can find those on drmanonbolliger.com/tips, the link is here. And I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Sue Dumais  20:35

And spirits like well, if you’re only giving me those two options, then A is your best choice in this moment. Whereas if we say, what would you have me do? What would you have to do? An open question then spirits are like C, you’re going to go down this path, you’re going to do it this way, you’re going to follow these steps. And that’s going to take care of other people a little bit better if we actually really are willing to follow those breadcrumbs without having our human agenda or human preferences get in the way. So it’s a real fine dance. And I love that we’re having this conversation because we’re kind of talking about it in a different way with you. It’s just kind of fun. So it feels good.

 

Dr. Manon  21:20

Yeah, well, it was very practical and honest positioning. And like, for me, it’s like my feeling is that when I know it’s my intuitive voice. When I can breathe differently, or I have a sense that I’m at peace. Doesn’t mean it’ll be easy, or it doesn’t mean like all of that. But it’s like, okay, that’s the next step.

 

Sue Dumais  21:50

You connect to that inner knowing. So that brings you that deep peace, because it’s like, there’s a developing of trust there. Right?

 

Dr. Manon  21:58

Yeah. And then you’re willing to take the consequences. Because you’re at peace with that knowing? I think it is knowing that you know you are in the knowing.

 

Sue Dumais  22:18

And making sure that knowing isn’t hijacked by the ego, it’s just fear disguised as knowing, right. So that’s divine discernment. It’s a practice I find it’s a practice like anything practicing like, you know, exercising a muscle exercising your intuition is a practice. And the more and more we do it, the more and more we get more confident, the more and more clear we get, it’s like, Okay, this is what it feels like, this is what intuition feels like. And then we can develop it from there, maybe sink into that remembrance of it, because it is really a remembering.

 

Dr. Manon  22:56

So, next question I have for you, what advice do you have for what people are experiencing now? I mean, there’s so many different things, but just general?

 

Sue Dumais  23:14

Challenges that people are facing, there’s a lot of different challenges people are facing. And,  if we face those challenges from a perspective of understanding that if it’s on your path, it’s purposeful, we don’t always understand the purpose, we don’t always see the reason for it. But knowing that if it’s on your path, it must be purposeful. And it’s for your healing. So I always look at life as a classroom for our healing and awakening. And the more we can approach life that way, then the more we can find meaning along the path, and the more we can find peace in finding meaning. Now the key is how do we find peace without always having an understanding of the meaning? And that’s where I practice present moment hindsight. So, instead of waiting for hindsight, looking back going okay, now it all makes sense in my life, why I quit that job or why I was fired or why whatever, we can look back in hindsight, but when you practice present moment, hindsight, it opens up space in the mind to connect to meaning or purpose in the moment as things are unfolding. So for me, and those moments where I’m feeling really challenged by what’s going on, what I’m witnessing in the world today, especially the separation and the battlefield, and the fighting, and the violence, and this division, right? When I see that I was really struggling with it, I would forgive it all over. Okay, spirit hold this for me because the vision I’m holding is painful. Show me another way to see the situation. Show me another way to look at all of this. Show me more loving compassionate perspective so that I don’t feel I don’t have this anxiety that I’m carrying. And then I start to get these global visions like these visions of these pockets of separation are happening. This division is happening, but there’s these pockets of unification happening at the same time. And as these groups come together and unify, other groups are triggered, so I started to see this as a broader, more global kind of understanding. Okay, this is what’s happening on a grander scale. And that really helped me so for me, it’s forgiveness, forgiving over the perspective I’m currently holding, honoring my humaneness, and the challenges that I’m feeling at the same time. So honoring my own emotions, and then asking for another perspective or tuning into that present moment hindsight, so that I can find meaning and then return to peace. That’s my process a lot of times around them.

 

Dr. Manon  25:59

 Interesting. You mentioned the 10 stages of evolution of the ego. So can you share a little bit of what that is? Or is this too long a discussion?

 

Sue Dumais  26:22

So the ‘The Evolution of the Ego’ is one of my books, and I talk about the 10 stages of evolution, there’s 11 now since I wrote the book. Oh, my God, another one, right, there’s probably more that are gonna keep coming. So basically,  the way I look at the ego is an overprotective helicopter parent that will stop at nothing to keep you safe, protected, and playing small. And what happens is, it takes his job very seriously. And the more we evolve, the more we wake up, the more we start to take risks and really put ourselves out there, shine our light, the more protective the ego becomes. And the more we become aware of how the egos kind of embedding fear to keep us playing small, the more it needs to evolve because those things that it’s doing to try and keep us safe are no longer working. So it has to evolve. So it evolves, I’ve talked about the temper tantrum ego, that’s one stage that goes into these temper tantrums and tries to like, you know, have a hissy fit to make us believe it and buy into the fear. And when that doesn’t work, it might become the cheerleader, your cheerleader ego is someone that is a part of our ego, that actually becomes this voice of encouragement, you’re doing great, you don’t need to do more than you’re doing. That’s enough, you know, it’s like, it’s like, keep on it. No, you can stop now, you know, don’t go that way, come this way, this is a safer path. So it becomes this, almost disguised as loving, kindness, and guidance. So and then there’s the spiritual ego, and there’s a whole bunch of them. But I find that when we understand how clever and cunning the ego can be, because it’s really trying to protect us when we have that awareness of the stages of what it possibly can use against us to keep us in here, then we can actually meet it there and shift or move ourselves out of it, or even with the awareness, we can just acknowledge Oh, I see you. I’m good. I’m not going to let fear stop me here. Thank you for showing up. But I’m going to choose to do this anyway, even though I have fear. So it’s been an interesting process. And I’ve been studying the ego for a long time. So it’s been fun to kind of watch it evolve over the years for me personally, but then also watch it evolve. Now seeing those stages gives me more clarity for myself, watching those stages, and watching my clients go through them.

 

Dr. Manon  28:58

So what’s the 11th?

 

Sue Dumais  29:02

I call it the superego which I discovered. So there’s the spiritual ego, which is when ego hijacks our spirituality, and there’s a real, inferior superior element to it. I often describe it as like, kind of like a peacock spread out its feathers kind of showing off, like, here I am. So we can either expand thinking we’re better than somebody or we can contract thinking we’re less than somebody. That’s the spiritual ego. Now the spiritual ego is part of us individually. Now, the superego is the collective ego or the collective fear of everyone everywhere, altogether all at once. And it’s a force to be reckoned with. It’s like when I first discovered my superego, it was actually when I was launching my book, ‘The Evolution of the Ego’ the day of the launch, superego showed up in the mirror basically looking back at me and was like, how dare you put this out in the world? And it was this force bigger than any energy of fear I’ve ever met. But it was like the collective fear of humanity all into one big ego. Interesting to face that one down.

 

Dr. Manon  30:22

Wow, yeah. And you still went through at least you recognized it.

 

Sue Dumais  30:26

And I came up the other side.

 

Sue Dumais  30:34

Dissolved ego is actually the 10th. They’re not in any particular order.

 

Dr. Manon  30:44

You’ve had several books out now. So it finally reared its face.

 

Dr. Manon  30:58

Okay, we’re gonna wrap up. But I have one more question for you. Actually, no, you know, what, instead of a question, is there something you specifically wanted to share? And you can take a few minutes with something that feels right to you to share?

 

Sue Dumais  31:15

I believe right now, it’s interesting, as much as we can look around and see all the chaos and the battleground and the fights and the contrast and the division, I just want people to know that, from my perspective, I did lose a little bit of hope for humanity there for a while I was like, I don’t know, if we’re gonna pull ourselves out of this one, like, we’re really going down this wormhole. And I felt a shift. And this shift that happened, it was just in the last couple months, really created a renewed hope for humanity, a renewed energy, and possibility for transformation and for shifts to happen, that are actually going to serve all of us. And I feel actually really quite excited. And as much as people come to me, and they’re like, but there’s this and there’s this, and the masks and that and I’m like, you know, you can focus on all those things individually. But I keep being pointed back to like, the grand plan, like what’s really happening. And I’m actually quite excited for humanity right now. The shifts that are happening. So if you can’t find your own glimmer of hope, or you can’t find that faith for humanity within your own heart and mind right now, you can borrow mine.

 

Dr. Manon  32:44

Okay, I have time for one more question. I’m gonna ask that question. So part of my belief is that healing is bringing things to consciousness. And  I’m in the process of questioning that belief. Whether it’s, of course, there’s examples of it. But is it a principle? Is it true, that healing brings things to consciousness.

 

Sue Dumais  33:25

It’s an interesting way to speak about it. And depending on the individual you’re talking to, some people will need to hear it that way. And some people will need to hear it in a different place. So I just want to, I always talk about there’s no right or wrong,  there’s just what does that person need to hear right now? And if that’s what they need to hear,  then that helps them,  that’s purposeful. So I love that you’re questioning it because I feel like there’s a little bit of your own personal kind of evolution happening at your own…….. understanding of it.

 

Dr. Manon  34:03

People are saying, oh, there’s so much more consciousness happening now. In those who are seeing that whatever is happening is happening for a reason. And therefore, people, they say people are waking up or starting to question and, and etc, etc. So they’re saying there’s a lot of increased consciousness.

 

Sue Dumais  34:26

Yeah. When it comes to healing for me, it’s the more we become aware of where our blocks are to the truth of who we are. That helps us align with the truth of who we are. In my experience, and what I’m teaching right now, where I’ve landed right now is that we actually don’t need healing. And it’s only our belief in the mind that we need healing. Yes, is what we need to heal. Because the truth is, we’re whole complete, and perfect in all our beingness. So it’s an interesting concept healing. And, I’ve sat with that word for a long time because I call myself a healer. And it feels purposeful. It’s been given guidance. So that’s what I do. But really, the truth is that healing is just an idea on a human level that we need to use because we need to meet people in their humaneness in order to remind them of their divinity. And if we don’t meet them where they need to be met, then we actually miss out on the opportunity to help them see the truth of who they are.

 

Dr. Manon  35:44

I totally agree with you. I have a statement I say how you live is how you heal. it’s the consciousness of your moment-to-moment awareness. And, yeah, and then dealing with all the things that come up, and how observing it’s you observing this interesting dynamic.

 

Sue Dumais  36:12

I always look at it when we actually come to this place of…this is my favorite thing. When you are met with something that normally would trigger you. You would normally have fear or something happened around you’d have a trigger reaction to and it’s not there. I love those moments because that’s the moment when we know we’ve come full circle in that healing. And then we can show up in our humaneness, but not be triggered by our leftovers and that’s really empowering.

 

Dr. Manon  36:43

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, well, Sue, that was fun.

 

Sue Dumais  36:49

Thank you, that was a good conversation.

 

Dr. Manon  36:51

Thank you for being here!

 

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