Jane Hogan (02:09):

well, if you don’t have your health, you really don’t have much. So when a health condition kind of smacks you in the face, it makes you take stock of things and, and reevaluate things. Not that I was there that…… Like in the initial point, it came on very quickly. I had just come through a really emotionally stressful year. My mother had died suddenly, and there was things going on with that. And so really quickly I started just getting this joint pain that was in my shoulder first and my arm had to go in a slang. And then the next day it was the other shoulder..arm… Had to go in a slang and it kind of started migrating. It went from my shoulders, next thing, that was my feet.

Jane Hogan (03:01):

And I just thought, Oh, my feet are really sore. I guess I need orthotics. I’m 50 years old now. So I got orthotics. And then it was my elbows, my hands, my jaw, and my knees started to swell right up. And that was really quite bad because I could hardly walk. And and my hands were so swollen and tight. Like I couldn’t make a fist. And I couldn’t squeeze a shampoo bottle……. Was something I couldn’t do. It was just sort of not able, starting to be, not able to look after myself. And so it happened that that was in a really short period of time. Like about three months I went from being nothing to, you know, almost disabled. So that was quite quick. And , I guess I was just not able to do much and I was just lying there one day and it wasn’t diagnosed at this point, but I was, you know, consulting Dr. Google and kind of was figuring this might be an auto immune thing. I hadn’t even really heard of rheumatoid arthritis before, but I was starting to piece it together with the information I was finding on the internet. So I wasn’t diagnosed nothing, showed up in my bloodwork .My Doctor recommended for me to see rheumatologists. Now I live in Newfoundland and Canada. It takes six months to see rheumatologists. So I had a bit of time. And so my doctor mentioned that food sometimes can trigger joint pain, which I thought was absolutely crazy. because I thought food has nothing to do with your joints. But I was really in a bad way. So I just, decided I had to do something ! I had the freedom years coming up, my husband and I were looking forward to retirement.

Jane Hogan (04:57):

Our youngest child was just finished high school. So, you know, we’re just coming up to an empty nest and the freedom years, like I have to do something and figure this out. And I’m a problem solver. That’s what engineering, the engineering background is. Right. It’s problem solving. So I was like, okay, this is my project to manage and I have to figure this out. So I started with food and I started getting a little bit better and I started researching some more. And so I just started going down this whole road of trying different things, you know, sleep meditation, all these different things. And so along the way I did discover functional medicine. And I think for myself first, I thought I’ll just, I wanted to tell people about these changes and how lifestyle could help. And people weren’t very open to it. It doesn’t go over very well at parties.

Dr Manon (05:58):

before you go on and actually let’s go into that a little bit because I mean, here’s, I mean, you had nothing to lose or gain. I mean, from sharing it with people, you’re just sharing because that’s your experience, but people are very hesitant to this kind of information. So how did you deal with that?

Jane Hogan (06:21):

I found it really frustrating because I would see people eating things, which then by this time I knew, you know, inflammatory foods are what people commonly eat is, you know, often very inflammatory and I wanted to tell them and I wanted to shout it off the rooftops and you know, people don’t want to hear it. So that was, that was kind of, they don’t want to hear it because they don’t want to change. I remember saying to someone, a friend of mine he was waking up with, joint pain and, and trigger finger, you know, he called it and I said, you know, what have you tried this? Just try for a week and see what happens. And he was like, if I have to not eat bread again, I just, as soon not live.

Dr Manon (07:15):

it’s almost like when you have no choice to do something, I mean, still many people in your situation would just go, right. because that’s a solution, it’s a solution. They don’t only manage the symptoms, but they would just take, you know, anti inflammatory and then go down the entire cascade of all that can happen when you choose that route.So for you, it was like a lucky situation that you couldn’t get an appointment and then you used your skillset and you really looked through it step by step. So when you started ……..and we will go further, I want to know the whole trip, but i want the details. So how did you come to…..the realization that foods could be inflammatory, I guess that’s the first thing just by Googling. And then how did you engineer this plan? What was your ……… your mindset.

Jane Hogan (08:24):

Well first of all I made the decision……… And I had been reading about the medications and I knew the side effects, which, you know, weren’t pretty!! They can limit your life, you could get cancer, all these things. So I really didn’t want to go down that route if I didn’t have to. And, and the, the other thing I did, I made a decision that I was going to do everything I could. So that was number one, I think. And number two was I started researching other people that had ,had this and had healed naturally. So I also developed a belief that it would work. So I think those things, you know, really made a big difference. And that’s part of the reason why I’m so outspoken about my journey is I want other people to see that it’s possible so that they can get a belief because mindset is huge. If you believe it will work you will take steps to make it work. If you don’t believe it’ll work. It probably won’t, you know, we know about the placebo effect and how this works all the time. The mind is very powerful,

Dr Manon (09:36):

The way you’re referring to it. And I think this is probably one of the things that you,…..why you…….you’re an excellent coach. It’s I think it’s first, you need to make the decision and you base your decision on the available information, did you have a gut feeling or how did you make that first decision?

Jane Hogan (10:03):

I think it was a combination of things. So it was, I just knew that my life wasn’t meant to be like that. I just felt that inside, and I don’t think I’m any different than anyone else. You know, people would sit there and say why me? I don’t deserve this, those kinds of things. And so I think that so that was key. And also I had a really strong why. So that’s another thing we, always talk about, people need their, why? Like, why did I want this? I wanted this because we had spent my husband and I, you know, I was a working mom. I gave everything to my kids. And then this retirement was our freedom years and that was gone. Like, I just couldn’t see how any of that was going to happen. So I had a really strong why for making this happen, so that that’s key, and I use that with clients as well. You know, let’s really see why this is important to you because if it’s not that important, you can’t stay the course because lifestyle changes are hard.

Dr Manon (11:18):

And then belief. So because people say, Oh, belief it’s important. But it’s like, Oh, that’s what makes it woo or strange. But I would like you to speak to the……….what gave you the belief that it could work? What was the resources I’m really using the best of your engineering mind right……. But what was it that, that gave you the belief that it could apply to too you!

Jane Hogan (11:54):

Well? So I found other people on the internet and I listened to podcasts, you know, like yours. I started getting books from medical doctors that were practicing functional medicine. So I knew that they were saying it had worked. So I liked Dr. Amy Myers, Terry Walls, some of these other doctors. I’m a science girl as well, so I wanted the science as well. And I, and I still like that. I love blending the science with the spirituality and the other thing I did as well was I started tracking things and I charted and I graft. So I would literally make, you know, Excel spreadsheets and create graphs and like could see that it was working. And when you see results like that, you, you know, it does help with the motivation to keep going. Right. I also have a really high self-regulation capacity.

Jane Hogan (13:00):

So it’s interesting. I learned this when I went on and in my coaching course, we learned about character strengths. And I don’t know if you’ve heard of the via character strengths, they identify 24 different character strengths that are, you know, seen as strengths across all cultures. And I happen to be really high in one that’s called self regulation. So that’s, you know, saying you’re going to do something and sticking with it. And following through with a lot of people that tends to be a little bit lower. So I think I had a natural propensity to stick with things. And that, that definitely helped because I didn’t have a coach. I was just figuring this out as I went. So I think when someone’s self regulation is lower, we have to come up with ways and methods to help them stick with the plan,

Dr Manon (13:58):

To be more accountable to yourself, basically remind you of your why and Motivated. Yeah.

Jane Hogan (14:07):

I was really lucky with that. And what was the chart via V I A,V I A character strengths. So I think if you just type in your character strengths, there’s a free survey online and you can do it and see what your……. What your they’ll rank your character strengths based on a Series of questions.

Dr Manon (14:29):

I definitely must have a similar character strengths because I’ve gone through the process and, and documented less so ,in the sense of that way, but internally documented how am I feeling?this constant checking in, am I moving in the right direction? But it is interesting to know that character strength because that really can help people understand whether they, they would do better with some support, you know? And, and I think when you don’t use it yourself, you don’t realize how important it is. If it’s not your natural mechanism. You know, I’m thinking like in our, in our clinic as naturopathic doctors, we worked collaboratively and when we talk about nutrition, it’s like, well, just, you know, just shop on the outside lanes, avoid the middle, you know, and then here’s a few things it’s like, that did not work for a lot of people.

Dr Manon (15:36):

They really need it, like the list of what they can buy, the, how that they can cook it, the, you know, really being told and then like a checklist, did they do it or did they not? You know, and, and it was amazing. I couldn’t understand. I mean, I understand that, but I couldn’t understand it. Like, not in the feeling sense of like, you know, this is, it’s so important that, that part of it. That’s very interesting. Okay. So let’s go back to your journey. So you, at this stage so you were reading about functional medicine and what had you already achieved simply removing the foods that you were sensitive to?

Jane Hogan (16:24):

Well, a lot of my inflammation had gone down, like I know my knees, which had been quite swollen, like golf balls, that inflammation went way down. I would say about 70%, but I had plateaued and that’s when I, in the readings that I was doing actually it was the Dr. Amy Myers book. It’s called the, I got it right here. ……The autoimmune solution,So in there it said, you know, if you’re following this way of eating and you, and you get stuck, then it could be one of these things. And so it could be, you know, a yeast overgrowth parasites, or, or small intestine, bacterial overgrowth. So with this information, I went to my family doctor and said, I’d like to be tested.

Jane Hogan (17:23):

I kind of suspected that it was either parasites or, or the small intestine bacterial overgrowth, because there’s a little checklist in this book. And so I asked my family doctor, you know, could I be tested for this? And she’s an amazing doctor because she said, I can’t in our system. I can’t test that for you. You’ll, you’ll need to see a naturopath So that’s what I did. And so I started looking in at the Institute for functional medicine, trying to find one in my area there isn’t one. So I found one online who would practice telemedicine. And so I went through a series of tests, turned out. I did have a severe case of small intestine, bacterial overgrowth treated that took about eight months to get that cleared up. And so that, you know, took me to another level. And so I kept on, you know, all these little layers. And then I got to another level where I realized, okay, I’m plateauing again, the CBOs cleared up, you know, what’s, what’s going on now. And I realized at that point that that I was still viewing myself as being broken.

Jane Hogan (18:40):

And so I really had to do this big mindset shift and see this illness as, and this is the work of of Byron Katie. You’ve probably heard of Byron Katie where it’s happening, not to me, but for me. So then it was another whole thing. Well, if this is happening for me, what is this meant? What am I meant to figure out? And then I started realizing, okay, there’s a whole lot more, I need to look at in my life, not just the food and not just sleep and not just meditation. I really started to look at everything. What is causing me stress in my life. And I, you know, I realized there was relationships that were causing me stress. There was my work, which I did love, but I realized I had this new passion in me now, and I wanted to do something about it. And so that was what started me becoming, and I thought, well, I was at that point 52 years old, and I thought, I can’t, you know, not going back to school now for five, six years. So what can I do that I would love to do. That’s really part of now who I am with this illness. And so that’s why I decided to get into functional medicine health.

Dr Manon (20:06):

I love the way that you could really break it down….. Your own story, you know, and, it just makes so much sense. And so let’s go a little bit more in now with coaching, because I, I really feel that that’s a in health especially there’s lots of business coaches and we could talk about that too, but I think let’s talk about a health coach. because I feel like that’s the, the most under not undervalued, but under estimated benefit to a clinic. And so where do you see that health coaches can really serve?

Jane Hogan (20:57):

well, I think you probably know this, that you’ve as a practitioner, you’re busy, you’ve got to see a lot of patients and probably don’t have the time to hold the hand of the person as they need to make these lifestyle changes. So that’s where a coach comes in. So I work mostly with people who just come to me directly because of where I live. There’s no Naturopaths where I live………….in that kind of model is the practitioner would see the patients diagnose, prescribe, you know, the lifestyle changes. And then the coach would help the person make these lifestyle changes because lifestyle changes aren’t easy to make and will easier for me.

Jane Hogan (21:53):

It was hard for me and my self regulation is high. So I can only imagine how hard it is for people. When the majority of people whose self-regulation is quite low. Having a coach helps people because it gives them accountability. It gives them someone in their corner. It helps the person problem-solve when, as you, mentioned like you, you have a plan, they don’t follow through. The coach can really help the person dig into a why did it fall through and what supports can we put in place to make sure it doesn’t fall through the next time.

Dr Manon (22:26):

So, what would you say are the reasons that people, when they understand it at this point that they, they need to make changes? Or is it that they don’t sufficiently believe it? Or what can you say so far from what you’ve seen working with people are the sticky points that really need that help.

Jane Hogan (22:54):

So the sticky points, sometimes it’s just knowing what to do. Like we have, we are so overwhelmed with information. There is no problem finding information, but it’s weeding through it and finding out what’s right for them. And honestly, like, everybody is different. So it’s trying to figure out what is right for this person, you know, what their particular physiology and their lifestyle what’s going to work for them. So it’s very personalized.

Dr Manon (23:30):

let’s say they see a naturopathic physician or they see a functional medical doctor and they’re told, okay, you know, now avoid all, let’s say, I’m just going to go with the generals, you know all gluten for example. And then they’re getting rid of the overgrowth or SIBO or what else it might be, you know, like you said, the plateau does happen. And then they might be stuck at the 90%, but there’s still the mindset piece. So like there’s many places in which you need, you could need support. And I guess what I was asking is where does it typically fall apart? Where is it that people, you know, break down and then go, Oh, well, whatever I’m just that,……you know, that, whatever it is…… That big sandwich……

Jane Hogan (24:26):

Oh, it’s just, you know, it’s so good. Right. All that stuff is so good. And we’re really driven to, you know, we’re programmed to want some of that stuff.So, sometimes it’s just giving them the right information and that isn’t always enough, even when they know what they’re supposed to do. So I really like to get behind it and get into the mindset. And I like to really explore the why I like to also look at how, what their thoughts are. So I like people to really start noticing their thoughts. So creating awareness about what their thoughts are. And because as you know, like the thoughts, drive your feelings, drive your actions or inactions, which then give you results. So if you want to change your results, you need to go back to the thoughts. So like to kind of get them working on thoughts.

Jane Hogan (25:29):

I like journaling. I like using a meditation and things to really start calming down because a lot of people with autoimmune conditions, it’s very directly related to stress. As you probably know, they’re spending a lot of time in this fight or flight mode. So it’s really getting them to relax. So even things as simple as, slow down while you’re eating, turn off the electronics and look at people and talk to people and enjoy your food and laugh while you’re eating. I mean, that’s even such a simple thing, but it’s very profound because it affects the digestion as well. and with autoimmune conditions, digestion, poor digestion often goes hand in hand with it. So,I love getting into the mind body medicine stuff. It’s a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (26:27):

And it’s funny because this is making me think out loud here, but because I didn’t clue into coaching. I’ve been in practice 30 years. Right. And i didnt clue into the need to offer coaching to people until the last like five years where I kind of went, Oh, there are things missing. But one piece that I did that because it’s a big piece of what I do is something called Bowen therapy, which puts the body into parasympathetic. It sort of allows this natural auto regulation and when I’m listening to your steps, I’m thinking that’s a piece that people really can do. And maybe why I didn’t see it as clearly, you know, or some of it was answered because they were able to, to not be so stressed… Your brain works better…. And everything works better. So then, you know, if on top of that, you have a coach for that keeping you accountable and then, you’re really maximizing your, your results. Right. it all comes together. I think it’s just, I think we put it together slightly differently, but I’m looking at your system of working through just support people. But it’s anyway. It’s great. It’s fascinating.

Jane Hogan (28:06):

I think a lot of people think some of this stuff is sort of woo. You know that it’s not really science-based, but what I like to bring it back to the science and you know, not that I’m a doctor and not that I understand all the physiology, but from everything I’ve read when we are in this strict stress state, which most of you know, people in our society are in most of the time when we’re in that state, we’re not healing. So I like to remind my clients, like as much as you’re doing all this other stuff, if you’re not in this rest and digest the parasympathetic mode, then you’re not healing,. And so when they hear that, like, okay, I got it. I gotta make sure I do this.

Dr Manon (28:57):

There’s plenty of science behind that. And that’s the thing. I think it’s often that the science is there it’s that……

Dr Manon (30:35):

I feel like the, the science is there, the science is there to back things up, on both sides, right? I mean both sides. It’s all one side science is science it’s, you know, do you know that it exists, you know, to really, to understand why you’re doing what you’re doing. And certainly that’s, that’s a piece because most doctors are busy helping people. They’re not necessarily, you know, doing new research about whether what they’re doing or getting, you know, really deeply looking into the science. it’s almost like the science is there and we’re catching up and we’re…….Oh, this…….. Oh, this makes sense. Now, you know, so it’s a lot, it’s very retrospective in some ways, which is quite quite funny. But I think the, the issue we were raising is also that, or at least that I’m raising is it’s a paradigm difference in thinking that the body can heal.

Dr Manon (31:40):

Yes. And that’s what we’re trained in We’re trying to, witness, we understand why on some level, but we’re still not gone. We don’t know all of the whys that it does, but we see this, you know, and I’m not talking about a religious God, I’m saying the universe, whatever one believes, just not to offend anyone, but that’s what we are. We’re trained. Whereas I think in allopathic medicine, that’s not the questions they’re asked and it’s not really, it’s not necessarily to understand that that’s a possibility they’re looking for what is the drug that will manage the symptoms. And that’s basically it. And I think that’s why we have such a, a difference of focus, right?

Jane Hogan (32:35):

It’s a total paradigm shift. You know, our whole conventional medicine system is what is the external solution to help this problem? People aren’t thinking the solutions within me, and it very much is within them. It’s a beautiful, it’s a beautiful thing. It’s very empowering when people realize that they hold the solution and they can, you know, we know that it’s genes that turn on as a result of the environment that causes a lot of these illnesses. So we’ve just got to change that environment. And for the most part, we are in control of our environment. And once you realize that you are in control and that your body will heal given the right environment, it shifts everything. And it’s so empowering. And that’s one of the beautiful things I really love about this is seeing people move from feeling helpless and hopeless, to feeling empowered and ready to take this on for the rest of their lives. And they’ve got these tools that they can trust themselves. They can figure out they can follow a procedure or, or do things monitor, you know, they have awareness of their bodies and how their bodies are reacting. They can monitor things and then apply this to whatever else comes up in the future, too.

Dr Manon (34:04):

I like the work of Bruce Lipton, it’s, it’s been around for ages. The research has been there. It’s 50 years of practice now as a scientist, but it’s funny. Now you can start to get it on video and people are hearing this and going, Oh my God, you mean, we’re not completely determined by our family history. No, not completely, you know, something still ignites the gene, something starts it. And the thing is, if that’s true, then what can we do to change the environment so that the body can go back. And we know that the brain has neuroplasticity, well, cells regenerate our gut lining regenerates, you know? So it doesn’t matter what our problem really is. As long as we we understand that we can change and work with that, you know? And yeah. So I’m very hopeful for the future that way. How about yourself?

Jane Hogan (35:13):

I think so too, because the word is getting out, we’re so connected now. And as you said, this is all available. There’s YouTube videos, there’s podcasts, there’s books, there’s the internet. There’s so much available now that if people look, they will see it, they will start to find it. And, and then as more and more people, you know, heal using natural methods, I think word is just going to get out. And then, you know, then it starts to grow. Then it starts to grow that more people do have this belief.when you talk about Bruce Lipton, you know……..if you believe it enough because your cells respond to your thoughts and all that kind of thing. So and then I think it might even shift, like people will have less and less. And I think this is even starting now less and less belief that the medications will work and then perhaps they won’t work as much. So it’s really interesting.it’s fun to watch this and see how it’s going.

Dr Manon (36:23):

They’ve done the studies on migraine medication, you know, giving it to two groups with a different attitude of the doctor, you know, saying this is the latest and it looks really promising compared to this this just came up, but the research, we’re not sure yet it may work. So why don’t you try it? You know? And they saw significant differences in results, the way a situation is framed, you know? So I think, the research is there for that. And I also feel like what, what a lot of people don’t realize when they’re making that decision, if it’s all in our mind, well, good, then do whatever you want. But here’s the thing. Drugs do have a significant side effects. And so even if your mind can make you feel better taking a drug, your body still has another experience of the reality.

Dr Manon (37:27):

It still puts toxins in your body. And so you better talk to your liver and to your kidneys, to, you know, all the cells in your body to deal with chronic disease. if it’s an acute moment, I mean, I’m not anti anything to me. It’s like everything has its place, but, the thing is, I don’t think people often hear the argument given against, Oh, it’s in your mind is, well, if it’s in your mind, then I’ll just do what’s easiest. And some people, fall back to, well, I like my bread or whatever it is, it’s easier. But the consequences of the other choices are often not made as clear. It’s not top of mind, you know? in your case, it was, you had researched it, you, you looked at the consequences and you thought, well, that’s not really for me. Right.I think that’s very important. It’s not equal just because it’s in the mind, there are big differences in the impact of the body.

Jane Karasek Hogan (38:31):

We live in a society too, where it’s instant gratification. So sometimes making the changes…. It takes longer than we might see with that instant relief, but then the long-term consequences of some of the medications, you know, you’re not going to see that right away, but over time you would see it. So it’s just a different way of looking at things. And I think everyone needs to make their own decision, but I know for me, I’m just so thrilled that things worked out the way they did. And and that I can help spread that word to other people now.

Dr Manon (39:16):

Absolutely. And in your own health, that at this point, are you do you have any symptoms left or, has your body recovered fully or how, how are you doing with that?

Jane Hogan (39:30):

Well, I always say I’m still a work in progress. I wouldn’t say I’m not in full remission and I don’t even know what that really means, but you know, when I met, when I managed my life in a way that supports my body, then I’m asymptomatic. If I slip on things. So if I don’t get enough sleep or if I start getting stressed or those things happen, then I will have flares or I’ll get some information again. So then that’s my signal to me that, okay, my body’s talking, I need to listen and then go back to, well what’s, what am I doing now that’s not supporting. ….So I’m always, it’s always on my mind that I need to listen to my body and do what I can to provide the environment that my body needs so that I don’t have those symptoms.

Dr Manon (40:26):

In my practice, I used also something that is questionable in the sense of there’s a lot of negative press for it currently which is homeopathy. I don’t know if you’ve heard about homeopathic medicine, but I have certainly used it with many, many patients with auto immune diseases. And, and I think one of the reasons, and I think you’ve covered all the points, mindset as well. And the last point, the ability to self regulate, all of this is a whole picture. The thing is what don’t we know of the whole picture that’s still impacting us. Right. And I think that’s where I see medicines like that have an impact where the rational, logical mind of going through……. All the steps might help. And at least I’ve seen it in, you know, in patients , the clinicians might be doing certain things. I did find that in the, in the cases that were not resolved that way, that it was usually some missing element that only became clear after working with homeopathy.

Dr Manon (42:06):

No, I’m not practicing anymore. after 30 years, I decided I’m going to do more education, public education and collaborating with other healthcare people, putting them together having these discussions. So, I felt that that’s more, the role I felt aligned at this stage, that felt right to me. I definitely can refer. And I will be having interviews with homeopaths as well. That’s definitely, there’s so much bad press. And why, I don’t know, it’s such an ancient ancient . ….. well 200 years compared to Chinese medicine, but it’s, it’s so scientific in that it really looks at every aspect of the person. It’s just that we don’t always know what that aspect means that we can’t attribute a meaning, but the plant or the mineral that produces that in a healthy person, those symptoms has its own meaning that we may not get, you know, so it’s like, it’s bigger than what we know. I’m comfortable with that.

Dr Manon (43:24):

I think there is so much, we don’t know about the human body and well, not just the body, but all of the body, mind, spirit, all working together in conjunction with our physical environment, we can’t know it all. There’s so much to discover. I think definitely all different modalities of healing I’m interested in. We really don’t know what the secret sauce is. We don’t. And then I think that the modesty has to be there, you know, that we, there is no, like, there is a best path possibly for one person, you know, which has to be determined. Like you say, by so many things, you know, what is the right path for that, that person and very individualized, but in the end, it’s it’s so many factors that make the difference and so many possible therapies that might be the right one at the right moment, you know? So it’s, it’s interesting. So did you have any last statement you want to leave people with. ?

Jane Karasek Hogan (44:33):

I would just like to……… If anyone is listening that has an autoimmune condition, just to know that there is a solution out there and you, you can heal and to just really start paying attention, listening to your body and know that it’s happening to teach you something.?