20 Years Cancer Free “I Believed I Could Heal” – with Chris Wark on The Healers Café with Manon Bolliger

my life and my future. And I prayed about it. And I just said God, if there’s another way besides chemotherapy, please show me. You know, I was just I just reached out, you know, in a prayer of desperation, but also faith like I was believing that God would supply all of my needs that he would lead me in the path of healing. And so, two days later, I got a book that was written by George Malkmus called God’s Way to Ultimate Health. And that book was George’s story about healing colon cancer with raw food. And a guy who was friends with my dad sent it to me. And this is a man I’d never even met he lives in Alaska and I’m in Tennessee, but he knew my dad and he heard that I was diagnosed with colon cancer, and he just thought I gotta send him this book. So, I was so encouraged by that by George’s story because he had healed this cancer that I had. And this was, you know, 30 years prior. And he was still alive. In fact, he just passed away in November. So that was, you know, pushing 50 years past his diagnosis almost. So sometimes one person’s story in your life can completely just send you on a totally different path, right, one person at the right time in your life. And so, George Malkmus was that for me. And I tried to be that for others. But I immediately adopted a raw food diet, and started juicing and there was no deliberation I just right away, I just thought, Okay, this is what George did to get, well, this is what I’m gonna do. And I believed that healing was possible. That’s the biggest gift that George gave me was that belief that healing was possible.

 

Manon Bolliger  06:02

So, before reading George’s story, what was your, your understanding of, of health or disease? Or, like, what were your preconceived ideas?

 

Chris Wark  06:14

Well, I’ve always been a little bit skeptical of conventional medicine. And my mom was sort of a crunchy mom, you know, kind of a hippie ish, mom, and was always, you know, liked to go to the health food store and buy sprouts and always took supplements and was a voracious reader of books by like Paul Bragg, you know, and Pavo Ariel, like, you know, lots of health and wellness books. And she had books about raw food and juicing and detoxification and alternative cancer therapies, she had this library books, that became very useful to me. It was like a miracle really, that she had been saving all these books for me, she didn’t even realize. So, I had a little bit of background of that of going to go into the chiropractor, you know, as a young person, as a teenager and as a young adult. So, I definitely understood there was a whole, like, there was a sort of a holistic side to medicine, that was about treating symptoms. I mean, treating causes rather than treating symptoms, which, so you know, I had a little bit of an understanding about that. And I even worked at a Wild Oats in college for a year, which got bought out by Whole Foods, but it was, you know, a natural grocery store chain. So, I was exposed to that world, but I wasn’t living in that world. Like I wasn’t taking care of myself, I was eating fast food, junk food, processed food, tons of meat and dairy, you know, sugar, salt, oils, like, I was eating the standard American diet, the Western diet. I had a lot of stress in my life. I was an entrepreneur; I was very competitive and driven. And I was in real estate trying to build a business, which was stressful, and I was playing music, and which was not stressful. That was like my outlet. But I was a newlywed. I just had a lot going on. I was just very young and ambitious, and, you know, just gettin after it. Right. To make something happen. And so, yeah, so those were all factors, you know, sort of leading up to my diagnosis.

 

Manon Bolliger  07:32

Yeah, I mean, definitely, there’s enough there that could ignite, you know, did you ever have in your journey, kind of pinpoint what the, you know, what it was that really brought it on for you? I mean, because, you know, we go back and we can say, well, there was the circumstance, there was the stress there was the foods there was, and it is accumulation. But did you ever have a…and it could be emotions and or non-spoken emotions, did you ever have like, Ah, this is when it started.

 

Chris Wark  09:09

I didn’t, but I’ve seen that very, very often in other cancer patients where there appears to be a very significant event in their life, a life event, like what we call a cancer trigger. And it’s usually a traumatic event. It could be loss of a loved one a divorce, abandonment, you know, bad breakup, you know, and abuse, that kind of thing. But no, I really didn’t have anything traumatic like that. But I was a swirling, you know, sort of ball of negative emotions in a lot of ways. I was very insecure. I was prideful, I was jealous, competitive, you know, judgmental, critical. You know, I just, I had developed these sorts of coping mechanisms for my insecurity over you know, maybe starting in junior high, and you know, as up until my, you know, being a young adult. So, let’s just say maybe 13 years of unhealthy thinking and unhealthy beliefs, false beliefs, negative patterns of thinking and behavior. And so, yeah, you know, I had all that going on. So, I had all the factors, you know, I had the unhealthy mental and emotional side and spiritual side, and then the unhealthy body physical, you know, bodily practices. And so, and, you know, at the time I was diagnosed, like, I wasn’t drinking, I wasn’t smoking, I wasn’t doing drugs, like I had cleaned up my life significantly. But, again, there was still a lot to be addressed. And what I found is that cancer is almost always it’s the convergence of multiple health destroying factors in a person’s life. Right? So, it’s like, it’s not just the trauma, but it’s like, there’s trauma, and they’re not taking care of their self, and they’re under high stress for a prolonged period of time. You know, and so, when you add all those factors together, you know, there’s like a multiplication effect. There’s a toxic synergy. And that leads people down the path of disease, and, you know, it caught me early. Right. Caught me early, most. And I will say, young adult cancers are on the rise.

 

Manon Bolliger  11:35

Oh, definitely.

 

Chris Wark  11:36

I mean, I was on the, you know, kind of in the early, early first wave, you know, of young adult colon cancers, it wasn’t unheard of. But, you know, this was 20 years ago for me. But now, I mean, young adult colon cancer is even more common than it was 20 years ago, and breast cancer, and some other cancers, too. And so that’s the bigger concern. It’s not how well is cancer treatment working? It’s why are more people getting cancer? Like, this is really where all the research money should be going not to develop new products.

 

Manon Bolliger  12:10

I so agree with you. Yeah.

 

Chris Wark  12:14

It should Let’s prevent the disease not figuring out how to make billions and billions of dollars treating all the new cases, which is where all your drug money and all your cancer charity, money goes. It just goes to enrich the drug companies, people think they’re doing a good deed by donating to some charity, or some pink ribbon race or something. And it’s like, no, you’re just funding drug companies that are going to patent a drug and then sell it back to you when you’re sick. You know, so. And so, you know, I was, I was a clueless cancer patient. I didn’t understand the disease at all. But I had this little bit of background that I knew that there was a different philosophy, medical and holistic healing philosophy that existed, right. That holistic philosophy versus allopathic medicine, naturopathic medicine versus allopathic and that kind of thing. And so, I found a, my mom knew a naturopathic doctor in town. She had visited him been to him a few times for just little stuff, nothing major, but she was like, why don’t you go see him? And so, I was like, okay, so I went and saw him, and he was the first person to tell me, you’re doing the right thing. And because I told him, here’s what I’m doing, I’m on a raw food diet, and I’m juicing and he was like, You’re doing the right thing. And that was just huge. I mean, man, like, I cannot tell you how, I mean, I wanted to just break down and cry right there in his office, you know. Just to have someone validate that what I was doing was the right thing, because, of course, my mom supported me, but you know, that’s your mom. You know, so it’s like it felt good coming from a total stranger.

 

Manon Bolliger  14:02

Of course, yeah.

 

Chris Wark  14:02

And then he connected me with an integrative oncologist who agreed to monitor my blood work and order some scans to keep an eye on things. And he also was doing IV vitamin C infusions in his office, and he was an incredible man too, because he had come out of retirement. He was in his 70s, silver hair, had come out of retirement to continue practicing because he didn’t like being retired and he felt better working. But he came back with sort of a different approach. He wanted to be more integrative. And he had spent his entire career as a very conventional surgical oncologist and then in his second career, he was an integrative oncologist and he was studying Chinese medicine and researching nontoxic therapies, specifically therapies that could improve or boost immune function. Because he understood like, you gotta get the patient’s immune system to fight the cancer, right? So, he was interested in these immunotherapies, 20 years ago, before it was really a buzzword. And IV Vitamin C is one of those. And so, he was a godsend. And that’s, he’s dead now too, because again, he was in his 70s 20 years ago. But I’m, you know, I didn’t have any support. You know, most of the people around me didn’t understand why I didn’t want to do chemotherapy. But I had a little tiny bit, I had my mom and then I found a naturopath and I found this integrative oncologist. And that was just enough, right, I got just enough support for me in that really critical time. Just to have just enough, you know, it wasn’t much, but just enough confidence to go down the road less traveled.

 

Manon Bolliger  15:59

Right.

 

Chris Wark  16:00

Take that alternate path. I like to describe it as the path into the jungle. Because it feels you’re like you’re alone, and you’re hacking your way through, and you really are alone. And that’s the harder path.

 

Manon Bolliger  16:14

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, there’s some people who don’t share it when they want to take another path, because they have to resist all the well-intentioned negativity about you know, oh no you shouldn’t do this, this has been improved and etc., etc. When really, you know, if you look at the research, it’s quite questionable. And do we really want to put more poison in our body? You know, these are the questions.

 

Chris Wark  16:44

Well, I had that resistance. I thought I had this, you know, epiphany, I’m like, what, I don’t understand how I’m going to poison my way back to health.

 

Manon Bolliger  16:53

It sounds a little weird, right?

 

Chris Wark  16:56

I just I don’t, this doesn’t make sense to me in my, I’m not a doctor, I’m not a scientist, right. I’m just a rational thinking person. And, like, if I can’t make sense of it, rationally, we got a problem. Like, you know, I, and it really did see. And of course, I knew that chemo drugs made people look very, very ill, right. Made Healthy People look extremely sick and like they’re dying. I had seen the effects of chemo drugs on other humans. And so of course, I had reservations, like, you’re going to do that to me, like, that’s what I’m going to turn into, like, you know, it’s just sort of Walking Dead type figure. And so yeah, you know, I didn’t like that prospect either, but not doing it was scary. Right? Doing it was scary. Not doing it was scary. There were two scary options. I had to choose one. And so, the thing is, it also taught me that I had to, I had to face my fear. And I had to learn to be comfortable in a state of fear, and worry and anxiety and in the like, in this sort of nebulous, unknown future land, right, where you just…I mean, we’re all living in unknown future land, nobody knows what the future holds. But when you have this prospect of a very scary future, right, that’s you have this, you’ve been diagnosed with this potentially life-threatening disease, this is in your future that can kill you. You’re living with that fear over your head. And so, I just learned how to quickly give it to God and just say, I trust you, I’m not going to be afraid. Like, every day when the fear would creep in, I would just say, I trust you. I’m not going to be afraid. I trust you, okay, like, I’m not gonna let fear steal my joy. And it will write anxiety and worry, and it’ll steal your joy and, and we don’t know what tomorrow holds. And the best you have is right now. and today. It’s like, Look, you might as well be joyful and happy today and be present, and practice gratitude. And so, cancer taught me how to quickly snap out of the feelings of feeling sorry for myself, and resentful of others. I was resentful of anyone who didn’t have cancer, you know, I found myself, you know, with those legitimate feelings of jealousy toward any healthy person, you know, and I’m like, this isn’t good, right? This isn’t healthy. And I quickly realized that I got to start counting my blessings. Like I’d never done that before. Not always…life had always been pretty good. You know, like, I never had real hardship grew up in the suburbs, middle class, whatever. And so, I just realized quickly that anytime I’m faced with something that I don’t like, right, bad news, bad situation. I could just stop right in the middle and say, Okay, let me just think about for a second. Let me just remind myself, what’s good in my life? Right? Instead of focusing on the bad, let me just focus my attention on the good. I have a wife who loves me, I have parents who love me, I have a home, a roof over my head, I’ve got AC, I’ve got heat in the winter. You know, I’ve got food to eat, I have enough money to pay my next set of bills. I have clothing, I have a really great dog. I can get out of bed.

 

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Chris Wark  21:40

And feed myself. And so, I can do that all day like I can just start just counting all my blessings. And boy, you don’t have to do that for very long, just a few moments. And it resets your perspective, like on how good life is and how much you have to be thankful for in the midst of a difficult circumstance. That was huge for me.

 

Manon Bolliger  22:02

Yeah, no, I think the mental attitude is a huge part of connecting to the healing process. I totally agree with you. And also, when did you physically feel like doing you know, the type of diet you were doing raw foods have an impact on you? When did you sort of go…I think I’m feeling better, you know, that type of stuff.

 

Chris Wark  22:28

It was about a week in. It was like, like less than a week. The first few days, and I tell everybody this, the first few days if you adopt a just even just a plant-based diet, or a raw food diet or you do a juice cleanse juice fast, you’re gonna feel like crap. Because you are you’re gonna suffer withdrawals from all your food addictions, your body kind of is in a state of sort of, like shock, because it’s like, what are you doing? Like, what were all this fiber come from? Right, I’m not used to all this broccoli, you know, and so, and there’s detoxification that happens and weird symptoms. So yeah, the first few days, like, you’re probably going to feel lousy, but don’t give up like hang in there. Because I’ve had people like sort of give up and go, Oh, I just can’t do this. I just don’t feel good. And they’re on like, you know, they’re at the end of the first day. You know, I’m like it hang in there. So anyway, yeah, after just a few days, you know, less than a week I started, I got a surge of energy. I was like, Wow, man, I really feel good. I’ve got energy, I’m sleeping good. Like, I’m really enjoying eating this way. My tastebuds had already started to change. I noticed that like my congestion that I had chronic congestion, it was clearing up. Even going to the bathroom, like, man, my poop doesn’t even really smell like, it’s not like it doesn’t smell at all, but it’s like, it’s not like it was. It smells way less bad. Yeah, and so, I mean, just things like that. And then and then I just was able to continue in just every day just I created this simple daily routine for myself and just repeated it every day. And then would have the periodic visits with a naturopath once a month and integrative oncologist once a month checking on things and, and so really, the diet was huge. Exercise was important. I started jogging, you know, just running, getting outside getting fresh air and sunshine and like just moving my body with intention. Rebounding and then, you know, taking all kinds of supplements and herbs and you know, my philosophy was like was pretty simple. It was like I had, I just sort of had this criteria that if there’s a potential benefit, and there’s no risk of harm, and I can find it and afford it. I’ll do it right. It was like, I wasn’t worried, like, Oh, what if this supplement doesn’t help, and you just payed out. I mean, okay, I don’t care, like, as long as there’s no risk of harm, I’ll take it, maybe it’ll help. Like, I trusted that my body would use what it needed. And, and I wanted to supply my body with an abundance of raw materials, all these wonderful bioactive compounds and molecules in fruits and vegetables, nuts and seeds, herbs and spices, right plant food, and just trust the process, and let my body use what it needed. And so, the entire intention of all that was really just to strengthen my immune system, to empower my body to heal and deal with any remaining cancer cells, and to change my internal environment and make it a place where cancer could no longer thrive, right, because cancer cells love inflammation, right? If you have inflammation, that’s a precursor to cancer, so inflammatory conditions precede cancer. And cancer cells also love immunosuppression. So, there’s two things that go hand in hand with cancer, it’s inflammation, and immunosuppression, or some type of suppressed immune function. And so, I was trying to reverse those two things, right, anti-inflammation with fruits and vegetables, and boosting my immune system with fruits and vegetables. And also, detoxification, which just happened happens naturally, when you’re doing those things.

 

Manon Bolliger  26:31

And it’s like it like you said, it’s common sense to look at what can you do positively to your body, and you don’t have to have cancer to do that. You know, we can do this ahead, we can avoid the inflammation, we can have a good immune system. And certainly, these days, as you mentioned, there’s more and more young people who are diagnosed with cancer. And recently, even more so. Right. So, we’re looking at, you know, all the things that have happened that have affected the immune system that have increased inflammation, and the lack of common sense, you know, the fear that has been accepted by people, you know, you can say, well, they’re victims of it. But also, you’ve got to learn to look at the other way, you know, and look like you did, it’s, it takes courage also to say, I’m going to take a different path, it doesn’t make sense to throw poison after, you know, already an inflamed and, you know, sick body at this moment, it just, you know. I don’t know, what do you think, is the main thing to help young people who, because I mean, you were really young to get this at that time? Like I said, it was quite…much more rare. What do you have as words of encouragement to in the society we currently live in? Because 20 years ago, it was a different time period, then now right now. Yeah, I see positive, but I also see a lot of, you know, letters on Canada, we have med beds, not med bed, sorry, wrong ones. I’m looking forward to those. But we have MAIDS, you know, this is our system of, if you’re not happy with your life, we have an easy way out. And you know, you can have a little anxiety or depression and just ask your way out of here. And it’s encouraged, you know, and I think times are very, very difficult for young people right now. So, I don’t know, maybe I’ll stop talking. Can we your thoughts about this?

 

Chris Wark  29:01

Well, there’s a lot of wild places I could go with this. But you know, Benjamin Franklin really said it best An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And I didn’t understand that, you know, the first time I ever read it, I do now. And it’s so much more fun and easy to adopt a prevention-based lifestyle and diet, when you’re not sick. It’s there’s no pressure, there’s no burden, there’s no stress. It’s a lot harder when you get a diagnosis, and you’re fighting the pressure, and the coercion and the fear and the anxiety to try to do something holistic or natural or to try to go against the grain or forge your own path. It’s hard and you mentioned…you mentioned courage and courage is kind of a funny thing because I promise you, I didn’t feel courageous. I did not feel brave, didn’t feel courageous. I felt afraid. That was the feeling and courage, what I’ve learned is that courage is the decision to act in spite of fear.

 

Manon Bolliger  30:13

Right.

 

Chris Wark  30:14

It’s not a feeling it’s, it’s moving forward in spite of your fears. You’re on the battlefield, you’re being shot at do you push forward? Or do you run away? Right? And leave me the people pushing forward on the battlefield, they’re not feeling brave. Right, but they just know we’ve got to push forward, and that our only chance of winning. And so in terms of young people, yeah, I know, it is a weird time, I have two young people in my life, I have two daughters, 18 and 15. And, you know, the world with social media and all the pressure and all the misinformation and you know, it is a different world to navigate than I had to when I was their age. But the other thing is, look, that well, I’m encouraged by the fact that like, being healthy is also kind of cool, right? There’s a lot of…there’s a lot of health and wellness influencers that are way cooler than me, right, that are attracting young people to their message and great, right. It’s like, when I was diagnosed, the raw food diet was a fringe diet for sick people and weirdos. Okay. Like that was I’ve never even heard of it until I read George’s book. I didn’t, I didn’t even realize it was a thing. Like, oh, there’s people that all they eat is raw fruits and vegetables. Like I knew vegans were a thing. But I didn’t know about the raw food diet, because it was only sick people doing it. And some very weird prevention people. But now yeah, there’s all kinds of just healthy people that have discovered it and are spreading that message of eating a whole food plant-based diet not necessarily all raw, but just eating a diet that’s really centered around Whole Foods, and getting away from processed food, fast food and junk food and eating too much meat and dairy and the problems that those can cause in your health over time. So, I’m really encouraged by that. So, it’s kind of like, you know, it depends on where I focus, right. I can, I can definitely feel discouraged when I see the increasing rates of cancer in young people. But then if I look over here, I can be encouraged by you know, these other young people that are really taking control of their health more. So, I think then, other younger generations have done. So yeah, it’s sort of a mixed bag. But I’m trying to reach them, right. I’m continually, you know, repeating myself telling my story, sharing what I’ve learned, being hopefully encouraging and inspirational and trying just want to inspire that tiny spark of hope. And that belief that healing is possible. Like I said at the beginning, like, if you believe healing is possible, then all of a sudden, that is, that’s the way out of victimhood.

 

Manon Bolliger  33:16

Yes, yeah.

 

Chris Wark  33:17

Because the medical industry preys on victims. And they make the most money off of people who believe that they are victims of disease, that there’s nothing they did to contribute to their disease. And they believe their only hope is a pill or a procedure. And so, they will take pills for the rest of their life now and do procedures over and over for the rest of their life, because they have been convinced, they’re a victim, and that there’s nothing they can do to help themselves. It’s tragic. And in my opinion, it should be it should be medical malpractice, you know, to treat patients that way. But that’s the way our medical model is set up at this time. So, what you’re doing and what I’m doing is trying to wake people up and to give them show them like and give them their power back and show you that you know what? Your choices matter. Your choices got you to where you are today, you have responsibility for your own life and health. Nobody else does. And the beautiful thing is this is not like a blame or shame game. This is…guess what…maybe the way you’re living is killing you. Okay, maybe let’s just entertain the possibility this is what I did. Let’s just entertain the possibility that maybe this is your fault. And it’s okay. Because what that means is, if this is your fault, if you have contributed to your disease, you can also contribute to your health.

 

Manon Bolliger  34:47

Yeah, absolutely.

 

Chris Wark  34:48

By changing your daily routine, what you’re eating, how you’re thinking how you’re acting and reacting, your stress the people in your life, exercising deepening your faith, practicing gratitude, right? There’s all these wonderful things you can do and most of them cost you nothing. So that’s to me, that’s such a hopeful, encouraging message. And it’s not a bunch of baloney. Like it’s validated. It’s true. It’s real.

 

Manon Bolliger  35:15

Yeah. And the truth is, if even if you don’t know, what caused it, or you can’t see how you contributed, you can always ask, is there anything in my life, you know, physically, food wise, emotionally, on any level, environmentally, that I can do that makes my life healthier? Right? It’s like, yeah, you know, and that’s the thing. We don’t have to know if we don’t, many people do. And, you know, and if you do, it’s, it’s like, it’s really good to just acknowledge it, like, you know, you have to make those changes.

 

Chris Wark  35:52

I think a lot of people know, instinctively, they assume that they know they’re not living right. You know what I mean.

 

Manon Bolliger  35:58

I agree, I agree.

 

Chris Wark  35:59

They know, the runt, they know they got too much stress, they know, they’re not taking care of themselves, they know they’re not eating well, they look in the mirror, and they think, yeah, I could have been in better shape, you know, that kind of thing. But they don’t know what to do. Right? They don’t exactly know what the steps are to take to change. And so, this is where I would say, you’ve got to start learning, right? You’ve got to read and research and follow people who have been down the path you’re trying to go down. So, follow people who have healed cancer, against the odds. With a holistic approach. I’ve interviewed dozens and dozens and dozens of people who have healed all types and stages of cancer. And the reason I do that is because it’s not just about me, like, when you watch the interviews I’ve done on the crispy cancer podcast, or YouTube or whatever, you’ll see the common threads, you’ll hear over and over and over the people who’ve healed when they tell you what they did, it’s gonna sound very familiar, because we all did basically the same things. Like the things I’ve been talking about. And so, and as you…so as you read and research and learn and learn from successful people, then your faith grows, right, your knowledge grows, and your faith grows and your belief that healing is possible is strengthened, it’s reinforced, and it becomes it goes from is healing possible to, I think healing may be possible to I know healing is possible. Right? I know it I believe it’s possible, these people have healed, you know what I mean? It’s like, it’s like, how do we know that humans can ascend Mount Everest? Because humans have done it.

 

Manon Bolliger  37:47

Exactly.

 

Chris Wark  37:48

Right. Humans did it. And so now other humans are like, I know, it’s possible. It’s not easy, right? It’s hard. It’s dangerous, you could die, right? But it is possible. And if someone wants to achieve that, you know, there is a method, right? They have to read and research, they have to learn, they got to prepare, they’ve got to follow the right people, they have to have a team, you know what I mean? But it’s doable.

 

Manon Bolliger  38:12

Absolutely.

 

Chris Wark  38:13

And it applies to cancer, it’s the same thing, you have to take a step back, and realize like, okay, something or maybe one thing or many things, or maybe everything in my life is contributing to my disease and needs to be changed. And you can’t do it all overnight. But you can do some big things overnight, you can change your diet overnight, immediately. Starting at the next meal, you can start exercising, immediately today, before sometime before sundown, like diet and exercise are like two of the biggest levers you can pull. Like those two are huge. And then you start to learn more about okay, you know, supplements and herbs and other alternative therapies and you’re dealing with your emotions and forgiveness, like that all takes time. But like pull those big levers first get the momentum going. And you just, you know, you learn and grow as you go.

 

Manon Bolliger  39:15

Anyway, I think thank you so much for sharing your enthusiasm and your life experience with us. And, and it’s a great idea to like you said interview other people. It’s always that we can connect to possibility and see that it happens, and I look forward to talking with you the other way around and sharing a little bit my story as well. Because, you know, I say my statement is how you live is how you heal. So, you just got to decide how you want to live. And I feel like it’s you know; you were saying all the steps. It’s true, right? And in the end, you’re just embrace what…yeah, what you embrace that makes you thrive and alive. You know? So? I think, yeah, it’s all possible. So, thank you.

 

Chris Wark  40:11

Healing is possible to believe that and if you’re not sure, then you need then there are ways. Again, there are ways that you can increase your knowledge and strengthen your belief, right? And it just starts with that little, tiny spark that little, tiny nugget of faith, right, see the tiny seed of faith and it really can grow from there and become, you know, produce this incredible harvest of health and joy and happiness in your life. That’s pretty great. Thank you for having me on your podcast.

 

Manon Bolliger  40:43

Okay. Well, thank you very much.

Ending

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