Navigating Long Covid with Holistic Healing – Autumn Bear on the Healers Café & Host Manon Bolliger

multiple system dysfunctions, right? They like to hone in. If it’s the gastro system, they’re going to go to a gastroenterologist. If it’s a cardio symptom, they’re going to go to cardiologists, etc. And so, when you have a host of things that are happening together, it makes it very hard both for them to treat. Typically, they like to treat using pharmaceuticals. And pharmaceuticals, as you know, are typically for one thing, and so, you know, there, there, I think there’s a lot of room for some of these complimentary therapies and therapies that have been around in other modalities to kind of jump in. And you know, for people who don’t know that much about Chinese medicine. Chinese medicine is built on multi system function and dysfunction, and that’s how we look at the body, and so that’s why it’s been something that I’ve been quite successful with the range of symptoms that I see are anything from breathlessness, you know, vomiting, you know. Incapable of keeping food down, brain fog, fatigue, neuropathy, you know, we’re looking at gut permeability, histamine reactions, gut you know, food sensitivities that didn’t exist before, but then exist now. You know, I mean, the list really does go on and on, a lot of heart arrhythmias. Or, you know, what we would consider to be like dysfunction of heart, meaning basically, like the heart rhythms are kind of all over the place, not necessarily like a tachycardia symptom, but more like they stand up, they have challenges with their heart rate going, you know, way too high, or they, you know, lay down, and their heart rate doesn’t regulate appropriately. Um, so, you know, I see so many symptoms, um, some, you know, I get a big gradient of who comes in. Some people are dire and they’ve been sick and absolutely bedridden and on disability for four years. And I have other people who have a lot of like, you know, executive function challenges, a lot of, you know, brain fog and fatigue, and that seems to be their biggest complaint, right? So, I…but yet they can work and function, it’s just that they’re completely knocked out and struggling. And so those, those are the things that I see on a pretty regular basis.

Manon Bolliger  06:26

And what would you say? Like, I know there’s not one treatment for you know, for this, you treat the person.

Autumn Bear 

Right.

Manon Bolliger 

So, and that’s the, one of the big differences with so called modern medicine or conventional medicine, if they receive, you know, a holistic acupuncture treatment and Chinese medicine. I’m assuming you’re doing herbs as well with that, or…

Autumn Bear  06:54

Not necessarily? Yeah, that’s a really good question. I do a fair number, you know, the biggest things that I’m seeing, like, if I were going to, like, put long covid into, like, some sort of small summation. I’m really seeing gut permeability, so leaky gut. I’m seeing a tremendous amount of autonomic dysfunction. So basically, the autonomic system is not working properly for anybody who is not sure what that is, that’s basically the system that regulates all of our non voluntary systems. So it regulates our sleep rhythms, our digestive system, you know, our body temperature control, circulation, heart rhythms, etc. So, so I would really say, like a lot of autonomic dysfunction, gut permeability, and then because of that, I’m seeing a tremendous amount of histamine reactions and inflammation, and I think that’s part of what’s contributing to a big portion of these problems that people are seeing. So most of what I’m using is actually, you know, I give a lot of homework to patients, so I do a lot of Chinese dietary therapy, because those are things that they get to do at home. These are support, you know, we build a matrix of health to help them support themselves as they’re working through this healing process. We work on a lot, on gut sensitivity, you know, we work on permeability and healing the gut and reducing inflammation, and I do that through a number of ways, some of which is acupuncture. A lot of it is diet and supplements and particular types of movement, whether it be Qigong or breath work. Breath work is actually pretty key in a lot of the healing process that goes on here because of its effect on the autonomic system.

Manon Bolliger  08:41

That makes sense. I mean, that’s, I don’t know if you know, but I run a school called Bowen College, which is all about regulating the autonomic nervous system, and that is a key, key part to starting everything else. When that goes back in order, so many things go back in order. That’s interesting, that this would be similar. So when you do, because there’s many nutritional suggestions, Ayuverdic, medicine, etc., you knew, what is it? Again, I’m not asking you for you know, everyone should do exactly what you’re to say now, but generally, what is there some sort of something you can recommend without recommending for a specific person? And right? Yes,

Autumn Bear  09:31

Yes, of course.

Manon Bolliger  09:34

But yeah, you know that you have seen that if people do this is a good place to start if they get an acupuncture.

Autumn Bear  09:44

Yeah, well, I think, I think there are some general things that seem to be big histamine triggers. For some reason, there’s a big rise in non celiac gluten sensitivity that seems to be happening. Uh, whether that was happening before they contracted the virus, or if it was a result of the virus, I’m not really sure. But what I’m seeing is people who didn’t have food sensitivities before often come in, um, with food sensitivities. And in many cases, you know, when I’m looking at inflammatory markers, and when I’m looking at inflammation in the gut, there’s always kind of five main things that I always say it’s really important to analyze these five things in your diet. Because these are the things that seem to irritate the body the most, gluten, dairy, soy, alcohol and sugar, those guys across the board, seem to be the biggest irritants. They cause the most inflammation, and they’re the first ones, you know, if someone is developing some sort of food sensitivity, that’s usually the place I like to start. So a lot of times I will recommend that someone go, or consider trying going gluten free for a month, or dairy free for a month, or both, because you really want to see, like, how is it going to be for you, right? Like, how is it going to affect your system? And if, and if it does nothing, you lose nothing, right? But if it does something and it makes a big impact, you gain everything. And I think that’s the thing that we’re looking at, is we’re having to kind of test things on an individual basis, because obviously the internal structure has changed, post virus.

Manon Bolliger  11:25

Yeah, no, that makes sense, but the reactivity of the immune system, I don’t want to go into the genetics of this, because it’s not my domain, but you know how some of the genes have been altered so that there there’s less well, first of all, that there’s more likelihood you keep getting sick. Have you…have you seen a change in that, that people you know that you’ve been able to treat vaccinated or not, whatever, that they’re less likely to become sick again, that their immune system actually becomes stronger.

Autumn Bear  12:15

This is a really good question, you know, I like to tell people, you know, 75% of our immune system comes from our gut. So when we look at that right, as we’re working on the gut and healing and repairing the gut for whatever reason, whether it’s permeability, sensitivity, histamine, not a lot, right, like we could go on and on, I think as we are rebalancing the system. I think all the systems become stronger, right? And I’m not, and I don’t really look at this on whether or not that’s going to keep people from getting reinfected. I think it’s the inevitability that people get reinfected. I mean, it’s pervasive, it’s everywhere you travel. You go to Europe, maybe you get a different strain. If you’re in Canada or, you know, the US, whatever the case is, you know, when it comes to viruses, I mean, the expectation is that we do contract viruses, but it’s whether or not our body is able to manage and deal with those viruses and pass them in a healthy manner so that we don’t, we don’t become weakened In our immune system overall. So, yes, I feel like people’s immune systems are stronger, but it’s really impossible for me to say whether that’s from immunity to the infection or if it’s from working on a health matrix that’s allowing them to be healthier.

Manon Bolliger  13:39

Yeah, but that was, that’s not so much the distinction. I think it’s more…I mean, if you’re not, you’re always going to be it’s like, it’s your environment, right? So basically, you’re going to be exposed to many things, no matter what, right? But you know, what we’ve been hearing a lot about is, you know, oh my god, I’m sick again or cold again, alright, you know. And it doesn’t need to be one thing or another. It could be…they get cancer or they, you know, like they’re just right. And so that’s something that allopathic medicine doesn’t really address, because it the body or healing in that, in that way at all. And so I’m just curious, in, you know, in the way this holistic way of treating people, are people experiencing less, sort of, you know, falling back or susceptible. Yes. Okay, yes.

Autumn Bear  14:45

I would say, I would say yes, because it, you know, you also have to think it’s, you know, when someone walks in, you know, part of the healing process is that we have to make a lot of change. And we are changing a lot of habits and things that had been going on for very long time before they were ever infected by whatever virus. And so by nature, as we’re as we’re working towards a healthier person. Because really, my focus isn’t just treating someone for long covid. My focus is longevity, right? And so, you know, I want that person to live healthy for as long as possible. And so we’re really integrating how to live a healthier lifestyle overall. And I think that in itself, lends itself to a much stronger individual, better tools, lots of options, right? And I do think that they benefit in that way.

Manon Bolliger  15:33

I mean, it makes sense like holistic is holistic.

Autumn Bear  15:36

Right. That’s it, right?

Manon Bolliger  15:39

You can’t really simplify it. Great. What about neurological conditions? Have you had people with that?

Autumn Bear  15:51

Yeah, yeah, I get a lot of, oh yes. I do get a lot of people with all kinds of neurological symptoms that that do walk in as a result of covid.

Manon Bolliger  16:04

And again, it’s the approach that you have is basically the same. Get the gut cleaned up, change some habits. Is there anything any other distinctions that you make, or is it just that their neurological system it was weaker and therefore more susceptible? Or how do you see that? And have you seen changes?

Autumn Bear  16:36

Great question. I mean, you know, there’s this great philosophy in Chinese medicine, and we really look at what we consider to be the root and the branch. So when we’re looking at disease, we’re really trying to figure out, where did this, you know, dysbiosis or imbalance start, and how do we really treat the root so that all the branches of that tree essentially start to heal themselves as a result of treating the root. So because the root, in many cases, is very similar, the symptoms might be different for each person, but it always seems to come back to similar things. And of course, you know each person is different, and what their lifestyle is and is different, and what their diet is different, and so we always have to kind of re center ourselves around who’s walking in the door and what that person’s needs are.

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Autumn Bear  18:40

Neurological symptoms, I definitely see those, you know, I’ll get, you know, anything from tinnitus to peripheral neuropathy, you know, I’m trying to think of some other, you know, I guess it depends on what you consider to be the neurological symptoms, because I look at things and I see a lot of, like, you know, vagal nerve challenges, and that, because it innervates so much of the body can be interpreted a little bit differently. But yes, I see a tremendous amount and, and they do improve, right? And, you know, acupuncture, just by itself, is great for any sort of neuropathy. And so that happens to be a tool I’m lucky enough to be able to use. But the people that walk in my door aren’t just getting acupuncture. We are talking like I said about the gut, about the neurological system or the autonomic system, about inflammation and how we can address that in all aspects of their life, right?

Manon Bolliger  19:39

Right. And what about the mental, emotional component of this? Can you generally, can you speak on that?

Autumn Bear  19:49

It’s, you know, I really feel for the people who are suffering from long covid and the ones that walk in my door, because the majority of them have really been through the ringer. Not only are they, you know, I think part of the emotional side that comes from a lot of these patients is that they have seen every single specialist, they have gotten, every test, they have been from one to another to another, and they’re fighting to convince the medical community that something is wrong with them and that they can’t figure out what it is, but something is wrong. And I think a lot of people have been both run through the mill and very invalidated. Oftentimes, patients are saying, Listen, I’m having all these things. These are happening to me, and ultimately, what they’re getting is doctors that are saying, Well, I think you just have anxiety, so I want to put you on Xanax and that’s so it’s just frustrating and debilitating. Because these people are, you know, I mean, I’m getting people who are like CEOs of major companies. These are people who work 75 hours a week in massive capacities, doing jobs that you know, most of us wouldn’t dream of doing, and they end up bedridden. You know, these are not, these are not people who are afraid of hard work or afraid of like, you know, tackling something. And when they are walking in and they’re saying, no, no, really, I want you to hear me, something is not right. Right? Like to have them just like their whole experience, you know, negated, I think, creates a tremendous amount of frustration, anxiety, overwhelming despair, right? Because that is part of this process, is that people needing to be heard and feel like what they’re experiencing is real. In many cases, I have patients who go through and have every lab work they have done, you know, under the sun, and everything comes back somewhat normal, quote, unquote, normal and so they’re frustrated because they’re like, but it doesn’t make any sense, because I feel this way, but you’re saying to me, there’s nothing wrong with me, and I think that disconnect between what the person is experiencing and what the medical community is saying is like, no, no, you’re not having a problem. You’re fine, right? And that disconnect is creating a tremendous amount of emotional turmoil for most of these patients. So, I would say, yeah, it plays a toll, right? Chronic disease on anybody plays a huge emotional toll. And it’s not just the person who’s experiencing it is everybody in their lives, their children, their spouses and partners, their colleagues at work, who are having to pick up, you know, when they call in and they’re like, I’m so sorry. I just can’t make it out of bed today, right? Like that. It can be, it can be, it can be really debilitating for someone’s life. And, you know, and it’s not fair to just try to categorize a person into the summation of physical symptoms or emotional symptoms, because both can be true at the same time.

Manon Bolliger  22:56

Yeah, and they and they play on each other. I mean, this is the other part, you know? It’s like, you know, I was in practice for about 30 years, and it’s like, Who do I get to treat? Oh, just the healthy people, because shows up in their you know, lab works, but they’re sick, you know. And, you know, fibromyalgia went through that period, you know. Now it’s like, you can say the word, and people go, Yeah, I have that more recognized, you know, than it used to be, yeah. But this has been one of, you know, so much denial, right?

Autumn Bear  23:33

Well. And there is a, luckily, there is some research going on around it, and there is finally some recognition, you know, with the World Health Organization and, you know, the National Health Institute and all of these other things, you know, they say, so there is research, and they’re saying it affects between 10 to 20% of the global population.

Manon Bolliger  23:55

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that’s a nice number, at least they’ve come up with. But, you know, we’re going to see a lot more research, or if that everyone has access to, I think it’s, it’s a huge catastrophe, but I think on the individual level, to have to on top of that, not be heard. Yeah, it’s horrible, you know, like, you say, from your work, or, you know, to go see somebody in in healthcare, and they’re like, I don’t know where, I don’t know how it happened. Don’t know how, don’t know anything. And you well, we don’t see anything,

Autumn Bear  24:41

Right? Yeah.

Manon Bolliger  24:44

Like how are you supposed to get better with that?

Autumn Bear  24:46

Well, and I do see, and I can tell you, you know, to answer your question, kind of in another way. You know, a lot of the patients I see have been sick for years, right? This isn’t just, you know, every once in a while, get someone who will pop up, and they’ll have, you know, long covid that will be, quote, unquote, newer last six months or so. But you know, some of these people have been sick for years, and not just the negation of the medical community, but also, you know, they’ve tried every traditional therapy, and they are still so sick, and you know, they’ll have these big wings, well, they’ll feel a little bit better, and then they’ll get way worse, and they’ll feel a little bit better, and then get way worse. And they start to lose trust in their own body. They start to lose hope that their body can heal. They start to lose this idea that there’s possibility and other ways to go about this. And I think that’s devastating as well, because it’s almost like the medical community is saying, like, we don’t know what’s going on. We don’t know what happened. We don’t think there’s anything wrong with you, because nothing’s showing up in your labs. And, oh, by the way, there’s nothing we can do for you, so therefore there’s nothing that can be done. And that is not true either, right? And so I think opening that conversation to allowing people to understand that a, healing happens. B, it doesn’t matter how long you’ve had it, it can still happen. And see there are plenty of modalities out there that can help take care of you and get you on a good path, and that that one path that you’ve exhausted isn’t the only path.

Manon Bolliger  26:22

No, I think, I think that’s the, the key. I was hoping that you would share because, you know, I think too many people don’t have hope, and not for good reasons. It just because the information’s not easily available, right? You know, we’re still in in a drug oriented, you know, society, yeah, drugs don’t work. I mean, if you think about it, these cocktails are made well, you it’s kind of a vicious circle, right? Yeah? Create the diagnosis for the cocktail you’ve created, or you recirculate, or sometimes you have one, and then you need a diagnosis to be able to prescribe, but, but it’s, it’s like, it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, you know, but when a real person comes with real symptoms that doesn’t fit one diagnosis, because they’re like, sick, you know, they’re not their system has gone off. Then you can’t give them 10 pills, you know, and 10 diagnoses, right? It just doesn’t right. You start to see the insanity of the system. That’s where I think a lot of people are kind of they’re either waking up to, oh, my goodness, I need to look at my whole body and my health differently. You know, I think this is what we’re in the process of seeing this. I don’t know your comment on that?

Autumn Bear  27:56

Well, I think, you know, I think a lot about this because, you know, I think what’s complicated about this conversation, I was just talking to a physician recently, traditional Western physician, and I said, you know, how often do you take people off of drugs? And the answer was, never. And, you know, and it really, really really sat with me because I really wanted to understand why that could be true. Because, you know, it’s not that. I don’t I think there are many amazing and wonderful physicians out there, and I would never, you know, I think there’s, there’s a place for everybody, there’s, you know, certainly, you know, I would never want to knock the western model, because it does save a lot of lives, and there’s amazing things that do come from it, but, but that one really stuck with me, right? And I and I thought about it and what I thought came from that conversation was, you know, when a lot of people go to the doctor and they have symptoms from something, instead of really sitting down and looking at where could this disease be coming from? Is this, you know, someone who isn’t moving their body? Is it based on nutrition? Is it, you know, X, Y and Z, number of reasons why someone can have a disease or get sick. And you know, 90% of most diseases are preventable, right through diet and lifestyle, and that’s not to say there’s plenty of genetic things that happen. We’re not talking really about those situations. But, you know, we’re looking at, if someone goes into the doctor, they’re not well, instead of looking at, how can we look at the whole person and the whole life and try to fix what’s happening as an underlying platform. They give a medication for a symptom, and so the reason they can never go off that medication is because they’ve never created a matrix that will essentially house their lives to heal, right? They’re not creating a matrix of health. So they’re just taking a pill to mitigate a symptom. And so the only way for people to truly be able to heal is by creating that matrix that’s going to support them, that’s going to allow their body to heal in all the ways possible, and I think that conversation is a conversation that that should be had. Why is the medical system not addressing these other aspects of the person and just looking at this microscopic aspect of disease and what sort of drug we can give to it without the conversation about lifestyle management to be part of that?

Manon Bolliger  30:37

Because there’s not actually, even really training in it, right?

Autumn Bear  30:40

There’s none, yeah, there’s, there’s none.

Manon Bolliger  30:43

Nutrition, you know, maybe 10-11, hours in some places. So, yeah, so it is really fundamental. I don’t know I did my TEDx talk on that subject, actually, about, you know, decath and the division of the body into parts with special 4h part, but they’re looking at the whole and when you think about it, you know they don’t talk about healing. They talk about management. And so when you look at healing, it’s another matrix entirely, because you know you’ve got, you’ve got to get to the root. You’ve got to look how everything interacts. It’s almost not an opposing model. It’s just, it’s another way of looking completely at the human body. It’s a philosophical shift, and that’s why I was really happy about this discussion today, because from people and well meaning people like, you know many, you know many doctor friends and totally well meaning, but they’re not, they’re in the other philosophy. It’s such a shift to think that things could even heal. Well, part of the thinking.

Autumn Bear  32:06

Yeah, and I think that, you know, we’re kind of in a moment in time where we have to bridge the gap between those conversations, because if, if the number that they’re saying is true, if, let’s just say, you know, 20% of the global population is suffering from long covid. That’s 800 million people that are essentially going to be descending upon the traditional medical system, which actually can’t handle that many, you know, like, like the general whole, I think just the United States. I don’t know about Canada, but you know, United States is probably about 45 million people, 45 million people integrating into the medical system that is already so overwhelmed, right? So how are we going to expect these, these doctors, to manage this, this onslaught of people coming in with need and need for care? How can we bridge the gap in having those conversations and saying there are many other beautiful modalities that really can unburden the medical system and allow for those conversations to be true, we can have a yes and conversation right? We can have a conversation where the western model and the complementary models can all be part of…

Manon Bolliger  33:25

We’re just having a little strange Wi Fi issue. Sorry, now, yeah, no, I don’t know where it’s coming from, but we’re actually we’re done in our timing. Let me give you the last few words to close.

Autumn Bear  33:39

Yeah, so I guess you know, if I was going to say anything to, you know, the people who are listening, you know, those people who are trying to figure out, you know, do they have long covid? Is it real? Is it something that that can be treated? And the answer is yes to all of those things. It is real. There’s a host of challenges that come with, you know, the idea of long covid, but there’s healing that can happen, and there’s lots of opportunities and options, and so please don’t feel hopeless in that, in that endeavor, because there is a lot out there.

Manon Bolliger  34:13

All right, I’ll leave you with that. Thank you so much, Autumn.

Autumn Bear  34:16

Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me.

Ending

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